From akfey at bulldog.unca.edu Thu Mar 2 02:17:00 2006 From: akfey at bulldog.unca.edu (Andrea Kirsten Fey) Date: Thu Mar 2 02:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] trouble loading simulators Message-ID: <80107.1141283820395.JavaMail.akfey@bulldog.unca.edu> I am not consistently able to load simulators in pyrobot, getting a "failed!" message. Sometimes I can load one simulator but not another, and sometimes I can't load any of them. Usually I can reboot my computer and it works then, but currently I can not load anything even after rebooting. The gui opens and the failure occurs when I next try to select a simulator. It does not work from the command line, either, and this is the message I get: [andrea@localhost pyrobot]$ pyrobot -s PlayerSimulator -w room.cfg Using PYROBOT in '/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyrobot'... Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/pyrobot", line 205, in ? pyroargs, c, worldfile, devices.split(",") ) File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyrobot/engine/__init__.py", line 51, in __init__ self.loadSimulator(self.simfile, self.worldfile) File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyrobot/engine/__init__.py", line 156, in loadSimulator raise "Simulator file not found: '%s'; is PYROBOT set?" % file Simulator file not found: 'PlayerSimulator'; is PYROBOT set? There does not seem to be any pattern to when it works and when it doesn't, although I don't think I can ever run it twice without rebooting (if I want to switch simulators or something). I can't associate any continuing processes after I shut it down, although once pyrobot was still running after I closed the gui. I've checked the archives, and did not find any references to this. I am using pyro on FC4. Thanks for your help. Andrea From dblank at brynmawr.edu Mon Mar 6 15:25:35 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Mon Mar 6 15:25:57 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] trouble loading simulators In-Reply-To: <80107.1141283820395.JavaMail.akfey@bulldog.unca.edu> References: <80107.1141283820395.JavaMail.akfey@bulldog.unca.edu> Message-ID: <1141676735.3579.130.camel@mightymouse.brynmawr.edu> Andrea, The first thing I see is that your command: pyrobot -s PlayerSimulator -w room.cfg gets an error "Simulator file not found: 'PlayerSimulator'; is PYROBOT set?" Pyro can't find a PlayerSimulator because there is no such simulator. Maybe you mean: pyrobot -s StageSimulator -w room.cfg I just did that a few dozen times, and it worked for me under FC4. One thing that you have to be aware of is that Pyro is a client/server system. That means that you have to start a simulator before you connect onto it, AND you should NOT stop the simulator before you disconnect from it. Basically, you never should close the simulator window manually---Pyro will do it for you. Sometimes, the client or server may crash. If that happens, you might have to do something extreme, like, in a console window: killall -9 pyrobot or killall -9 pyrobot player stage That could leave a socket open. Sockets, I believe, will timeout automatically in about 120 seconds. There is (almost) never a need to reboot a Linux system. See if these hints help, and let us know if not. -Doug On Thu, 2006-03-02 at 02:17 -0500, Andrea Kirsten Fey wrote: > I am not consistently able to load simulators in pyrobot, getting a > "failed!" message. Sometimes I can load one simulator but not another, > and sometimes I can't load any of them. Usually I can reboot my > computer and it works then, but currently I can not load anything even > after rebooting. The gui opens and the failure occurs when I next try > to select a simulator. It does not work from the command line, either, > and this is the message I get: > > [andrea@localhost pyrobot]$ pyrobot -s PlayerSimulator -w room.cfg > Using PYROBOT in '/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyrobot'... > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/bin/pyrobot", line 205, in ? > pyroargs, c, worldfile, devices.split(",") ) > File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyrobot/engine/__init__.py", > line 51, in __init__ > self.loadSimulator(self.simfile, self.worldfile) > File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyrobot/engine/__init__.py", > line 156, in loadSimulator > raise "Simulator file not found: '%s'; is PYROBOT set?" % file > Simulator file not found: 'PlayerSimulator'; is PYROBOT set? > > There does not seem to be any pattern to when it works and when it > doesn't, although I don't think I can ever run it twice without > rebooting (if I want to switch simulators or something). > > I can't associate any continuing processes after I shut it down, > although once pyrobot was still running after I closed the gui. I've > checked the archives, and did not find any references to this. I am > using pyro on FC4. > > Thanks for your help. > Andrea > > > _______________________________________________ > Pyro-users mailing list > Pyro-users@emergent.brynmawr.edu > http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users > -- Douglas S. Blank Computer Science Assistant Professor Bryn Mawr College (610)526-6501 http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank From akfey at bulldog.unca.edu Mon Mar 6 22:34:48 2006 From: akfey at bulldog.unca.edu (Andrea Kirsten Fey) Date: Mon Mar 6 22:34:51 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] trouble loading simulators Message-ID: <5029301.1141702488302.JavaMail.akfey@bulldog.unca.edu> Doug, Thank you for your response. I updated pyrobot this weekend which solved the problem of not being able to connect at all (I had tried the gui dozens of times before I typed the command improperly). I think I've been connecting/disconnecting in the correct order. However, the suggestion about the open socket was helpful - I've been trying to switch between simulators and worlds, and several attempts indicate that retrying after several minutes when the simulator fails to reopen seems to work. Regards, Andrea Douglas S. Blank wrote: >Andrea, > >The first thing I see is that your command: > >pyrobot -s PlayerSimulator -w room.cfg > >gets an error "Simulator file not found: 'PlayerSimulator'; is PYROBOT >set?" Pyro can't find a PlayerSimulator because there is no such >simulator. Maybe you mean: > >pyrobot -s StageSimulator -w room.cfg > >I just did that a few dozen times, and it worked for me under FC4. > >One thing that you have to be aware of is that Pyro is a client/server >system. That means that you have to start a simulator before you connect >onto it, AND you should NOT stop the simulator before you disconnect >from it. Basically, you never should close the simulator window >manually---Pyro will do it for you. > >Sometimes, the client or server may crash. If that happens, you might >have to do something extreme, like, in a console window: > >killall -9 pyrobot >or >killall -9 pyrobot player stage > >That could leave a socket open. Sockets, I believe, will timeout >automatically in about 120 seconds. There is (almost) never a need to >reboot a Linux system. > >See if these hints help, and let us know if not. > >-Doug > >On Thu, 2006-03-02 at 02:17 -0500, Andrea Kirsten Fey wrote: > >>I am not consistently able to load simulators in pyrobot, getting a >>"failed!" message. Sometimes I can load one simulator but not another, >>and sometimes I can't load any of them. Usually I can reboot my >>computer and it works then, but currently I can not load anything even >>after rebooting. The gui opens and the failure occurs when I next try >>to select a simulator. It does not work from the command line, either, From servando at mac.com Wed Mar 8 19:48:46 2006 From: servando at mac.com (Servando Garcia) Date: Wed Mar 8 19:48:55 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] pyrobot> Message-ID: <8f784ad49480c1656a2d29980896a882@mac.com> Hello list I am not sure what happened. My local administrator installed pyrobot for me. When I enter pyrobot I get this pyrobot> Ok so now what do I do? From dblank at brynmawr.edu Wed Mar 8 20:02:55 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Wed Mar 8 20:03:00 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] pyrobot> In-Reply-To: <8f784ad49480c1656a2d29980896a882@mac.com> References: <8f784ad49480c1656a2d29980896a882@mac.com> Message-ID: <23559.68.37.169.92.1141866175.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> > > Hello list I am not sure what happened. My local administrator > installed pyrobot for me. When I enter pyrobot I get this > > pyrobot> > > Ok so now what do I do? Hello, You are seeing one of the interfaces, the tty (or console) interface. This means that the regular GUI interface (tkinter) wasn't able to start. You can run Pyro like this, but you probably want the GUI. If you are running on a Unix system (Linux, Unix, or Mac OS X) then you may just need to set your DISPLAY variable, maybe like this: export DISPLAY=localhost:0.0 then run pyrobot again. If that doesn't work, make sure you are running X and have tkinter installed. If you are running under Windows, then make sure you have tkinter installed there as well. If you still can't get it running, try letting us know more information about your environment and what versions of os, python, and pyro you are running. -Doug From gtrajkovski at towson.edu Thu Mar 9 13:38:39 2006 From: gtrajkovski at towson.edu (Trajkovski, Goran) Date: Thu Mar 9 13:39:30 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] CFP: AAAI Fall Symposium: INTERACTION AND EMERGENT PHENOMENA IN SOCIETIES OF AGENTS Message-ID: <0E0EAA55325F464EAAD07FAD49AEBB4D6FF302@krypton.towson.edu> ********************************************* *** APOLOGIES FOR CROSS-POSTING *** *** PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WHERE APPROPRIATE *** ********************************************* 2006 FALL AAAI SYMPOSIUM October 12-15, 2006, at the Hyatt Crystal City in Arlington, VA INTERACTION AND EMERGENT PHENOMENA IN SOCIETIES OF AGENTS http://pages.towson.edu/gtrajkov/FSS2006 Whereas multiagent systems have been extremely helpful in solving engineering problems, much of what we find exciting lies in their applications to contemporary human life. In particular, the focus of this meeting will be on self-constituting systems and networks composed of human and non-human agents characteristic of emergent cyber cultures, including e-commerce, e-learning as well as other human/non-human agent systems in medicine, law, science and online interactions of all kinds. It represents an opportunity not only to share insights and experiments in multiagent systems composed of robot- and software agents, but to theorize hybridity formed at the junction of the human- and non-human. Multiagent systems, we submit, cross-disciplinary boundaries by focusing on society and culture as emerging from the interactions of autonomous agents. Poised at the intersection of AI, cybernetics, sociology, semiotics and anthropology, this strand of multiagent systems research enables a powerful perspective illuminating not only how we live and learn now, but also, through focusing on emergence, how we anticipate the future. Moreover, by convening this interdisciplinary symposium, we hope to form new network assemblages of variegated agents of researchers and their techniques out of which may arise new perspectives on heretofore parochial questions in our respective disciplines. From here, there are manifold policy implications: multiagent systems research, we believe, can be a powerful reagent, interrogating the teleological, emergentist assumptions underlying, for example, the adoption and institutionalization of IT in universities, businesses, hospitals and NGOs, and suggesting other, networked possibilities. Key questions: -Emergence of pre-linguistic concepts -Emergence of shared representations -Emergence of meaning and language -How can we characterize the fungible, shifting networks created by human and non-human agents? -How do the environment and the society influence the individual agent and vice versa? -What are the `, translations or other hierarchies that emerge in such settings? -What tools do we use in these explorations? -Are emergent phenomena surprising? If so, to whom? And what effects might such surprise register in a system composed of agents, phenomena and observer? -Are they surprises to the agent? -How do these phenomena reflect on the off and on-line societies? IMPORTANT DATES May 1, 2006 Papers due (10 pages max) May 22, 2006 Acceptance notice July/August Registration opens August 29, 2006 A/V Requests due, permission to distribute due Sept 1, 2006 Invited participants registration deadline Sept 22, 2006 Final (open) registration deadline ORGANIZING COMMITTEE Goran Trajkovski (co-chair), Towson University, USA Samuel Collins (co-chair), Towson University, USA Georgi Stojanov, American University in Paris, France Michael North, Argonne National Laboratories, USA Laszlo Gulyas, AITIA International Inc., Hungary Note that limited financial support for graduate students will be available. Please submit all questions to Goran Trajkovski, gtrajkovski@towson.edu (http://pages.towson.edu/gtrajkov). --- Cordially yours, Dr. Goran Trajkovski Assistant Professor Computer and Information Sciences Department Cognitive Agency and Robotics Laboratory Towson University 8000 York Road, Towson, MD 21252 Ph. 410-704-6310, Fax. 410-704-3868 http://pages.towson.edu/gtrajkov --------------------------------------------------- Just out: Diversity in IT Education: Issues and Controversies http://www.idea-group.com/books/details.asp?id=5531 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pipermail/pyro-users/attachments/20060309/b955d4bc/attachment.htm From gbisdale at hrl.com Thu Mar 9 15:57:26 2006 From: gbisdale at hrl.com (Jerry Isdale) Date: Thu Mar 9 15:54:13 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Problems running PyroSimulator on Windows Message-ID: <441096B6.3090401@hrl.com> When trying to run Pyro under Windows (2k, also observed on XP) The pyrobot TK gui opens just fine, but when we try selecting Server (PyrobotSimulator, World: Tutorial.py) there is a brief console window displayed and then it goes away. Debugging with WingIDE it seems to be blowing up in TkSimulator init (called from Tutorial.INIT()) at the Tkinter.Topleve.init() at BaseWidget.__init() at BaseWidget._setup at the line "if not master" Note that this was running PyrobotSimulator as a seperate process, not from the os.system() in gui (line 508) Suggestions? -- Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 HRL Laboratories, LLC 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 email: isdale@hrl.com web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com From dblank at brynmawr.edu Thu Mar 9 16:18:03 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Thu Mar 9 16:18:10 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Problems running PyroSimulator on Windows In-Reply-To: <441096B6.3090401@hrl.com> References: <441096B6.3090401@hrl.com> Message-ID: <34610.68.37.169.92.1141939083.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> Jerry, The Tutorial.py world has a camera in it, and currently we don't have any of the camera low-level C++ code working under Windows. I suspect that that is what is causing the problem. You can remove the camera from the world file, or try a different world. (We need a better way of failing. It does give a warning when loading the simulator, but should raise an exception when you try to load a camera). If you are familiar with C++, you could also help us get that working under windows. The code is in pyrobot/camera/fake/, pyrobot/camera/device/ and pyrobot/vision/cvision/. -Doug > When trying to run Pyro under Windows (2k, also observed on XP) > The pyrobot TK gui opens just fine, but when we try selecting Server > (PyrobotSimulator, World: Tutorial.py) > there is a brief console window displayed and then it goes away. > > Debugging with WingIDE it seems to be blowing up in TkSimulator init > (called from Tutorial.INIT()) > at the Tkinter.Topleve.init() > at BaseWidget.__init() > at BaseWidget._setup > at the line "if not master" > > Note that this was running PyrobotSimulator as a seperate process, not > from the os.system() in gui (line 508) > > Suggestions? > > -- > Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist > Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 > HRL Laboratories, LLC > 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA > Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 > email: isdale@hrl.com > web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Pyro-users mailing list > Pyro-users@emergent.brynmawr.edu > http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users > From gbisdale at hrl.com Thu Mar 9 16:34:47 2006 From: gbisdale at hrl.com (Jerry Isdale) Date: Thu Mar 9 16:31:32 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Problems running PyroSimulator on Windows In-Reply-To: <34610.68.37.169.92.1141939083.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> References: <441096B6.3090401@hrl.com> <34610.68.37.169.92.1141939083.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: <44109F77.1040904@hrl.com> I took out the Camera line... no change. I never get the Simulator window to open (as shown in tutorial video - on linux). Can you/someone confirm a world/robot combo that works with PyroSimulator on Windows? Should it show the simulator/map window that shows up on the linux/video version? thanks dblank@brynmawr.edu wrote: > Jerry, > > The Tutorial.py world has a camera in it, and currently we don't have any > of the camera low-level C++ code working under Windows. I suspect that > that is what is causing the problem. > > You can remove the camera from the world file, or try a different world. > (We need a better way of failing. It does give a warning when loading the > simulator, but should raise an exception when you try to load a camera). > > If you are familiar with C++, you could also help us get that working > under windows. The code is in pyrobot/camera/fake/, pyrobot/camera/device/ > and pyrobot/vision/cvision/. > > -Doug > > >> When trying to run Pyro under Windows (2k, also observed on XP) >> The pyrobot TK gui opens just fine, but when we try selecting Server >> (PyrobotSimulator, World: Tutorial.py) >> there is a brief console window displayed and then it goes away. >> >> Debugging with WingIDE it seems to be blowing up in TkSimulator init >> (called from Tutorial.INIT()) >> at the Tkinter.Topleve.init() >> at BaseWidget.__init() >> at BaseWidget._setup >> at the line "if not master" >> >> Note that this was running PyrobotSimulator as a seperate process, not >> from the os.system() in gui (line 508) >> >> Suggestions? >> >> -- >> Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist >> Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 >> HRL Laboratories, LLC >> 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA >> Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 >> email: isdale@hrl.com >> web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pyro-users mailing list >> Pyro-users@emergent.brynmawr.edu >> http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users >> >> > > > > > > > -- Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 HRL Laboratories, LLC 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 email: isdale@hrl.com web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com From gbisdale at hrl.com Thu Mar 9 17:29:10 2006 From: gbisdale at hrl.com (Jerry Isdale) Date: Thu Mar 9 17:25:55 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Problems running PyroSimulator on Windows In-Reply-To: <44109F77.1040904@hrl.com> References: <441096B6.3090401@hrl.com> <34610.68.37.169.92.1141939083.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> <44109F77.1040904@hrl.com> Message-ID: <4410AC36.5080805@hrl.com> Ok more data points... The 4.3.0 version as provided by http://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.01/ works ok on a Windows XP system (as long as you install everything in the default directories) (note this version has different robots. the 4.6.0 version doesnt work on XP either - probably the camera issue) Neither the 4.3.0 nor 4.6.0 (from pyrorobotics site) work on our Windows 2000 systems. It appears to be something in the TKinker windows, as that process crashes before displaying anything. We were able to run a robot on the Win2k Pyro and connect to a server on the XP system. Jerry Isdale wrote: > I took out the Camera line... no change. > I never get the Simulator window to open (as shown in tutorial video - > on linux). > > Can you/someone confirm a world/robot combo that works with > PyroSimulator on Windows? > Should it show the simulator/map window that shows up on the > linux/video version? > > thanks > > dblank@brynmawr.edu wrote: >> Jerry, >> >> The Tutorial.py world has a camera in it, and currently we don't have >> any >> of the camera low-level C++ code working under Windows. I suspect that >> that is what is causing the problem. >> >> You can remove the camera from the world file, or try a different world. >> (We need a better way of failing. It does give a warning when loading >> the >> simulator, but should raise an exception when you try to load a camera). >> >> If you are familiar with C++, you could also help us get that working >> under windows. The code is in pyrobot/camera/fake/, >> pyrobot/camera/device/ >> and pyrobot/vision/cvision/. >> >> -Doug >> >> >>> When trying to run Pyro under Windows (2k, also observed on XP) >>> The pyrobot TK gui opens just fine, but when we try selecting Server >>> (PyrobotSimulator, World: Tutorial.py) >>> there is a brief console window displayed and then it goes away. >>> >>> Debugging with WingIDE it seems to be blowing up in TkSimulator init >>> (called from Tutorial.INIT()) >>> at the Tkinter.Topleve.init() >>> at BaseWidget.__init() >>> at BaseWidget._setup >>> at the line "if not master" >>> >>> Note that this was running PyrobotSimulator as a seperate process, not >>> from the os.system() in gui (line 508) >>> >>> Suggestions? >>> >>> -- >>> Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist >>> Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 >>> HRL Laboratories, LLC >>> 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA >>> Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 >>> email: isdale@hrl.com >>> web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pyro-users mailing list >>> Pyro-users@emergent.brynmawr.edu >>> http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 HRL Laboratories, LLC 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 email: isdale@hrl.com web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com From dblank at brynmawr.edu Thu Mar 9 18:09:01 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Thu Mar 9 18:09:08 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Problems running PyroSimulator on Windows In-Reply-To: <44109F77.1040904@hrl.com> References: <441096B6.3090401@hrl.com> <34610.68.37.169.92.1141939083.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> <44109F77.1040904@hrl.com> Message-ID: <40277.68.37.169.92.1141945741.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> > I took out the Camera line... no change. > I never get the Simulator window to open (as shown in tutorial video - > on linux). Ah, maybe you don't have python in your path. > Can you/someone confirm a world/robot combo that works with > PyroSimulator on Windows? > Should it show the simulator/map window that shows up on the linux/video > version? It sounds like it isn't a combo that isn't working, but maybe it just can't start up the simulator. Once you have python in your path, then it should start up any of the worlds, including those with a camera. But you can only connect onto ones with out. You can try most worlds, including: any of the Braitenberg worlds wumpus konane (hawaiian checkers) The only two that do have cameras are Tutorial and CamWorld. -Doug > thanks > > dblank@brynmawr.edu wrote: >> Jerry, >> >> The Tutorial.py world has a camera in it, and currently we don't have >> any >> of the camera low-level C++ code working under Windows. I suspect that >> that is what is causing the problem. >> >> You can remove the camera from the world file, or try a different world. >> (We need a better way of failing. It does give a warning when loading >> the >> simulator, but should raise an exception when you try to load a camera). >> >> If you are familiar with C++, you could also help us get that working >> under windows. The code is in pyrobot/camera/fake/, >> pyrobot/camera/device/ >> and pyrobot/vision/cvision/. >> >> -Doug >> >> >>> When trying to run Pyro under Windows (2k, also observed on XP) >>> The pyrobot TK gui opens just fine, but when we try selecting Server >>> (PyrobotSimulator, World: Tutorial.py) >>> there is a brief console window displayed and then it goes away. >>> >>> Debugging with WingIDE it seems to be blowing up in TkSimulator init >>> (called from Tutorial.INIT()) >>> at the Tkinter.Topleve.init() >>> at BaseWidget.__init() >>> at BaseWidget._setup >>> at the line "if not master" >>> >>> Note that this was running PyrobotSimulator as a seperate process, not >>> from the os.system() in gui (line 508) >>> >>> Suggestions? >>> >>> -- >>> Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist >>> Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 >>> HRL Laboratories, LLC >>> 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA >>> Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 >>> email: isdale@hrl.com >>> web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pyro-users mailing list >>> Pyro-users@emergent.brynmawr.edu >>> http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist > Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 > HRL Laboratories, LLC > 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA > Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 > email: isdale@hrl.com > web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com > > From dblank at brynmawr.edu Thu Mar 9 18:23:48 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Thu Mar 9 18:23:52 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Problems running PyroSimulator on Windows In-Reply-To: <4410AC36.5080805@hrl.com> References: <441096B6.3090401@hrl.com> <34610.68.37.169.92.1141939083.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> <44109F77.1040904@hrl.com> <4410AC36.5080805@hrl.com> Message-ID: <47279.68.37.169.92.1141946628.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> > Ok more data points... > > The 4.3.0 version as provided by http://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.01/ That's interesting! I had heard that MIT was considering using Pyro, but I didn't realize that they were already using it. If anyone out there is there at MIT (either as instructor or student) let us know. We'd like to know how it is going. > works ok on a Windows XP system (as long as you install everything in > the default directories) > (note this version has different robots. the 4.6.0 version doesnt work > on XP either - probably the camera issue) > > Neither the 4.3.0 nor 4.6.0 (from pyrorobotics site) work on our Windows > 2000 systems. > It appears to be something in the TKinker windows, as that process > crashes before displaying anything. > > We were able to run a robot on the Win2k Pyro and connect to a server on > the XP system. That is also interesting. It sounds like you are narrowing down the problem. I don't have a Win 2000 machine to test it out. It does work under Mac OS X (with a little bit of tweaking) and works under Linux. Let us know if you make any progress; others will surely want to know what you did, and we will make changes to the source if necessary. -Doug > Jerry Isdale wrote: >> I took out the Camera line... no change. >> I never get the Simulator window to open (as shown in tutorial video - >> on linux). >> >> Can you/someone confirm a world/robot combo that works with >> PyroSimulator on Windows? >> Should it show the simulator/map window that shows up on the >> linux/video version? >> >> thanks >> >> dblank@brynmawr.edu wrote: >>> Jerry, >>> >>> The Tutorial.py world has a camera in it, and currently we don't have >>> any >>> of the camera low-level C++ code working under Windows. I suspect that >>> that is what is causing the problem. >>> >>> You can remove the camera from the world file, or try a different >>> world. >>> (We need a better way of failing. It does give a warning when loading >>> the >>> simulator, but should raise an exception when you try to load a >>> camera). >>> >>> If you are familiar with C++, you could also help us get that working >>> under windows. The code is in pyrobot/camera/fake/, >>> pyrobot/camera/device/ >>> and pyrobot/vision/cvision/. >>> >>> -Doug >>> >>> >>>> When trying to run Pyro under Windows (2k, also observed on XP) >>>> The pyrobot TK gui opens just fine, but when we try selecting Server >>>> (PyrobotSimulator, World: Tutorial.py) >>>> there is a brief console window displayed and then it goes away. >>>> >>>> Debugging with WingIDE it seems to be blowing up in TkSimulator init >>>> (called from Tutorial.INIT()) >>>> at the Tkinter.Topleve.init() >>>> at BaseWidget.__init() >>>> at BaseWidget._setup >>>> at the line "if not master" >>>> >>>> Note that this was running PyrobotSimulator as a seperate process, not >>>> from the os.system() in gui (line 508) >>>> >>>> Suggestions? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist >>>> Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 >>>> HRL Laboratories, LLC >>>> 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA >>>> Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 >>>> email: isdale@hrl.com >>>> web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pyro-users mailing list >>>> Pyro-users@emergent.brynmawr.edu >>>> http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist > Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 > HRL Laboratories, LLC > 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA > Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 > email: isdale@hrl.com > web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com > > From gbisdale at hrl.com Fri Mar 10 16:54:04 2006 From: gbisdale at hrl.com (Jerry Isdale) Date: Fri Mar 10 16:50:51 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Problems running PyroSimulator on Windows In-Reply-To: <47279.68.37.169.92.1141946628.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> References: <441096B6.3090401@hrl.com> <34610.68.37.169.92.1141939083.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> <44109F77.1040904@hrl.com> <4410AC36.5080805@hrl.com> <47279.68.37.169.92.1141946628.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: <4411F57C.5030305@hrl.com> SOLUTION!! I had installed nice 3d simulation tool (http://www.delta3d.org) which provides python wrappers for its 3d engine. The installation requires the creation of an environment variable PYTHONPATH This is apparently used by Python to find loadable modules. However, if this variable exists, Pyro will fail - this happens on Win2k and WinXP My work around is to copy the delta3d *.pyd files to a site-packages folder and create a delta.pth file in site-packages. Then the sys.path will contain the delta3d files. Why Python fails to run the PyroSim's TK window is unclear to me, a new python hacker. But, true to my engineering background, I have found a way to Make It Work, and that is sufficient to continue what I am really interested in .... making PyRhoDelta - a delta3d simulator that interoperates with pyrobot. dblank@brynmawr.edu wrote: >> Ok more data points... >> >> The 4.3.0 version as provided by http://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.01/ >> > > That's interesting! I had heard that MIT was considering using Pyro, but I > didn't realize that they were already using it. If anyone out there is > there at MIT (either as instructor or student) let us know. We'd like to > know how it is going. > > >> works ok on a Windows XP system (as long as you install everything in >> the default directories) >> (note this version has different robots. the 4.6.0 version doesnt work >> on XP either - probably the camera issue) >> >> Neither the 4.3.0 nor 4.6.0 (from pyrorobotics site) work on our Windows >> 2000 systems. >> It appears to be something in the TKinker windows, as that process >> crashes before displaying anything. >> >> We were able to run a robot on the Win2k Pyro and connect to a server on >> the XP system. >> > > That is also interesting. It sounds like you are narrowing down the > problem. I don't have a Win 2000 machine to test it out. > > It does work under Mac OS X (with a little bit of tweaking) and works > under Linux. > > Let us know if you make any progress; others will surely want to know what > you did, and we will make changes to the source if necessary. > > -Doug > > >> Jerry Isdale wrote: >> >>> I took out the Camera line... no change. >>> I never get the Simulator window to open (as shown in tutorial video - >>> on linux). >>> >>> Can you/someone confirm a world/robot combo that works with >>> PyroSimulator on Windows? >>> Should it show the simulator/map window that shows up on the >>> linux/video version? >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> dblank@brynmawr.edu wrote: >>> >>>> Jerry, >>>> >>>> The Tutorial.py world has a camera in it, and currently we don't have >>>> any >>>> of the camera low-level C++ code working under Windows. I suspect that >>>> that is what is causing the problem. >>>> >>>> You can remove the camera from the world file, or try a different >>>> world. >>>> (We need a better way of failing. It does give a warning when loading >>>> the >>>> simulator, but should raise an exception when you try to load a >>>> camera). >>>> >>>> If you are familiar with C++, you could also help us get that working >>>> under windows. The code is in pyrobot/camera/fake/, >>>> pyrobot/camera/device/ >>>> and pyrobot/vision/cvision/. >>>> >>>> -Doug >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> When trying to run Pyro under Windows (2k, also observed on XP) >>>>> The pyrobot TK gui opens just fine, but when we try selecting Server >>>>> (PyrobotSimulator, World: Tutorial.py) >>>>> there is a brief console window displayed and then it goes away. >>>>> >>>>> Debugging with WingIDE it seems to be blowing up in TkSimulator init >>>>> (called from Tutorial.INIT()) >>>>> at the Tkinter.Topleve.init() >>>>> at BaseWidget.__init() >>>>> at BaseWidget._setup >>>>> at the line "if not master" >>>>> >>>>> Note that this was running PyrobotSimulator as a seperate process, not >>>>> from the os.system() in gui (line 508) >>>>> >>>>> Suggestions? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist >>>>> Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 >>>>> HRL Laboratories, LLC >>>>> 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA >>>>> Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 >>>>> email: isdale@hrl.com >>>>> web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pyro-users mailing list >>>>> Pyro-users@emergent.brynmawr.edu >>>>> http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> -- >> Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist >> Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 >> HRL Laboratories, LLC >> 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA >> Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 >> email: isdale@hrl.com >> web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com >> >> >> > > > > > > > -- Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 HRL Laboratories, LLC 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 email: isdale@hrl.com web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com From dblank at brynmawr.edu Tue Mar 14 13:19:24 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Tue Mar 14 13:19:43 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Running from CVS under Windows Message-ID: <1142360364.30677.67.camel@mightymouse.brynmawr.edu> [Some have been attempting to run the Windows version of Pyro right from CVS. These are some notes I have added to http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroInstallation in section 1.1. -Doug] If you would like to run the latest Pyrobot from cvs under Windows: 1. Get Pyrobot from CVS: http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroDeveloperCVS 1. Put it in Python\Libs\site-packages\ 2. Copy the file pyrobot\build\pyrobot to pyrobot\bin\pyrobot.py 3. You may also want to put Python in your PATH, as Pyrobot spawns a Python program to run the simulator Not everything runs under Windows, so you may wish to remove the following files so they don't show up in the Server load list: * pyrobot\plugins\simulators\StageSimulator * pyrobot\plugins\simulators\RobocupSimulator * pyrobot\plugins\simulators\GazeboSimulator Also, any Pyrobot world that mentions a Camera you will want to remove as the C++ code doesn't currently run under Windows. -- Douglas S. Blank Computer Science Assistant Professor Bryn Mawr College (610)526-6501 http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank From gbisdale at hrl.com Tue Mar 14 14:56:46 2006 From: gbisdale at hrl.com (Jerry Isdale) Date: Tue Mar 14 14:53:33 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Running from CVS under Windows In-Reply-To: <1142360364.30677.67.camel@mightymouse.brynmawr.edu> References: <1142360364.30677.67.camel@mightymouse.brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: <44171FFE.8080200@hrl.com> An additional file is required: 2a. Create a file pyrobot\system\version,py with the contents: def version(): return "4.9.0" otherwise pyrobot.py will die before displaying anything. V4.9's PyroSimulator runs both Tutorial.py and Test3d.py on my Win2000Pro system. Yeah! thanks. Douglas S. Blank wrote: > [Some have been attempting to run the Windows version of Pyro right from > CVS. These are some notes I have added to > http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroInstallation in section 1.1. -Doug] > > If you would like to run the latest Pyrobot from cvs under Windows: > > 1. Get Pyrobot from CVS: http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroDeveloperCVS > 1. Put it in Python\Libs\site-packages\ > 2. Copy the file pyrobot\build\pyrobot to pyrobot\bin\pyrobot.py > 3. You may also want to put Python in your PATH, as Pyrobot spawns a > Python program to run the simulator > > Not everything runs under Windows, so you may wish to remove the > following files so they don't show up in the Server load list: > > * pyrobot\plugins\simulators\StageSimulator > * pyrobot\plugins\simulators\RobocupSimulator > * pyrobot\plugins\simulators\GazeboSimulator > > Also, any Pyrobot world that mentions a Camera you will want to remove > as the C++ code doesn't currently run under Windows. > > -- Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 HRL Laboratories, LLC 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 email: isdale@hrl.com web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com From dblank at brynmawr.edu Tue Mar 14 16:25:29 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Tue Mar 14 16:25:45 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Running from CVS under Windows In-Reply-To: <44171FFE.8080200@hrl.com> References: <1142360364.30677.67.camel@mightymouse.brynmawr.edu> <44171FFE.8080200@hrl.com> Message-ID: <1142371529.30677.93.camel@mightymouse.brynmawr.edu> On Tue, 2006-03-14 at 11:56 -0800, Jerry Isdale wrote: > An additional file is required: > > 2a. Create a file pyrobot\system\version,py with the contents: > def version(): > return "4.9.0" > > otherwise pyrobot.py will die before displaying anything. Thanks! Updated the webpage to reflect this as well: http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroInstallation > V4.9's PyroSimulator runs both Tutorial.py and Test3d.py on my > Win2000Pro system. > Yeah! > thanks. No problem. BTW, Jerry mentioned the new Test3D.py world for the Pyrobot Simulator that is in CVS, and soon to be in the repository and release files. This is a computationally expensive but functional Pure-Python 3D world viewer. The mouse doesn't do what it should yet as far as rotating, translating, etc. But you can turn on/off the wireframe view in the simulator menu---there are three levels of wireframe. You can see a sample at: http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=The_20Pyrobot_20Simulator For more on CVS see: http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroDeveloperCVS -Doug > Douglas S. Blank wrote: > > [Some have been attempting to run the Windows version of Pyro right from > > CVS. These are some notes I have added to > > http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroInstallation in section 1.1. -Doug] > > > > If you would like to run the latest Pyrobot from cvs under Windows: > > > > 1. Get Pyrobot from CVS: http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroDeveloperCVS > > 1. Put it in Python\Libs\site-packages\ > > 2. Copy the file pyrobot\build\pyrobot to pyrobot\bin\pyrobot.py > > 3. You may also want to put Python in your PATH, as Pyrobot spawns a > > Python program to run the simulator > > > > Not everything runs under Windows, so you may wish to remove the > > following files so they don't show up in the Server load list: > > > > * pyrobot\plugins\simulators\StageSimulator > > * pyrobot\plugins\simulators\RobocupSimulator > > * pyrobot\plugins\simulators\GazeboSimulator > > > > Also, any Pyrobot world that mentions a Camera you will want to remove > > as the C++ code doesn't currently run under Windows. > > > > > -- Douglas S. Blank Computer Science Assistant Professor Bryn Mawr College (610)526-6501 http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank From dblank at brynmawr.edu Tue Mar 14 19:32:07 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Tue Mar 14 19:32:14 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Doing things that take a while Message-ID: <1208.68.34.179.248.1142382727.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> Pyro users, The question of how to deal with a brain that wants to think for a while comes up every once in a while. Currently, the brain expects to fire about 10 times a second, and if it doesn't, things don't respond well. The GUI will not be responsive, and the robot will act erratic. There were some design decisions made early on that cause this. Basically, we just wanted to avoid having to use locks and threads. Pyro assumes that devices will update about 10 times a second, and so will the brain, and so we made everything run in the same thread, including the GUI (basically). I think the next version of Pyro will fix this, but what to do for now? Imagine that you have some kind of rational logic engine that Pyro will talk to through some process-to-process communication. Now, imagine that this communication will take a while. Here is a device skeleton that allows you to talk to it 10/second, and it will in turn talk to some other process which might take seconds, or even minutes: from pyrobot.robot.device import Device import time, threading, random class LogicDevice(Device, threading.Thread): def setup(self): threading.Thread.__init__(self) self.lock = threading.Lock() self.data = 0 self.start() def updateDevice(self): print "Updated started..." self.lock.acquire() # look at the shared data print "data:", self.data self.lock.release() print "Updated done!" def run(self): while self.isAlive(): print " Async update started..." time.sleep(2) # do something that takes some time self.lock.acquire() # acquire the lock self.data = random.random() # update the data self.lock.release() # release the lock print " Async update done!" def INIT(robot): return {"logic": LogicDevice()} This has all of the code necessary for starting a thread, locking/unlocking to protect data, and ending the thread. You can load this device like any other device and it will show up as robot.logic[0]. You can even load multiple copies, the next being accessed at robot.logic[1]. Simply loading this causes the output: Async update started... Updated started... data: 0.493140023963 Updated done! Updated started... data: 0.493140023963 Updated done! ... (repeats 17 times total) Updated started... data: 0.493140023963 Updated done! Async update done! Async update started... Updated started... data: 0.346892748144 Updated done! Updated started... data: 0.346892748144 Updated done! ... Hope that helps, -Doug From dblank at brynmawr.edu Tue Mar 14 23:05:54 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Tue Mar 14 23:06:02 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Make your own Pyro Documentation Message-ID: <56523.68.34.179.248.1142395554.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> Pyro users, You ever wanted to have a complete Pyro Manual (like those that we handed out at the summer workshops) but you didn't want to go through by hand and print each section of the website? I don't blame you; there are over 70 different sections! Well, now there is an easier way: our new DIY Documentation. Simply go to: http://pyrorobotics.org/diydocs.html Here, you can select and order the pages that you want to include, and then create a single HTML page. You can then print the page, save it, and edit it in a word processor. To make all of the docs into a single HTML page: 1. Go through the sections, and mark the pages that you want in your documentation 2. Mark the pages with numbers that indicate the order of the pages. For example, put into the boxes numbers that indicate the ordering of the sections. Example entries: 1, 2, 2.1, 2.2, 5, 10, 10.1. Leaving a box empty will leave that section out of your documentation. The sections will be ordered based on your numbering. 3. Click on the "Create Documentation" button 4. Wait a moment while the system creates the webpage 5. Save the page to your local computer, or print it out directly 6. Open the html in your word processor, and edit as you like (for example, insert page breaks, etc) This will even create a clickable Table of Contents. Do note that this documentation has a Creative Commons copyright. Please let us know if you find this useful, or if you have suggestions. -Doug From dblank at brynmawr.edu Tue Mar 14 23:27:33 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Tue Mar 14 23:27:37 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] building an SRN with distinct input and output patterns In-Reply-To: <20060315035052.GA2159@servant5.ling.ohio-state.edu> References: <33421.68.34.179.225.1135053013.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> <20060315035052.GA2159@servant5.ling.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <43090.68.34.179.248.1142396853.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> > Dear Pyro Community: > > I am attempting to build a simple recurrent net with different numbers > of input and output nodes, and a different encoding scheme for each. > Specifically, the input may detect a certain word as a combination of > features, but the net should learn to output a specific node for each > word -- for example: > > net.setInputPatterns( {"dog": [1, 0, 0, 1], > "cat": [0, 1, 1, 0], > "rat": [0, 1, 1, 1], > "bird": [1, 0, 0, 0], > "fish": [1, 1, 1, 1], > "elk": [0, 0, 1, 1]}) > > net.setOutputPatterns({"dog": [1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0], > "cat": [0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0], > "rat": [0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0], > "bird": [0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0], > "fish": [0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0], > "elk": [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1]}) > > Naturally, I'd like to do this with as little re-writing of the conx > code as possible. Would any of you have any advice as to what parts > of the code I would need to change, and what I would need to modify? > Ore is there another way to do this without changing the code that > would be simpler (e.g., building an SRN from more basic layers and > connections rather than using the pre-defined package, and then > specifying the input and outputs separately? C. Anton, Interesting. Can you just use slightly different names for your patterns, such as "cat" for the input but "cat-out" for the output pattern? If not, there are a few things you can do, such as override getDataMap. getDataMap takes the type of pattern ("input" or "target"), a pos, the name of a layer, and an offset. Let us know, first, if you can't just use slightly different names, and I'll look into how you use getDataMap... -Doug > > -- > ================================================================== > C. Anton Rytting | "You must be the change > The Ohio State University | you wish to see > Department of Linguistics | in the world." > Oxley Hall 222 | -- M.K. Gandhi > 1712 Neil Avenue | > Columbus OH 43210 | Tel: +614 292 7343 > Email:rytting AT ling.osu.edu | Fax: +614 292 8833 > ================================================================== > > > > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 11:30:13PM -0500, dblank@brynmawr.edu wrote: >> In addition to the recent bug fix in using symbolic names in the Pyro >> Neural Network package (conx.py), I just made the following change that >> will be of interest to anyone that uses the neural network code. >> >> First, one limitation with conx has been that it only reports error as a >> per output node amount. Therefore, correct percentages are based on the >> number of output nodes. This is hard to interpret in some situations. >> For >> example, consider representing an output as [1, 0, 0, 1]. Conx would >> compare each of those values to see if it got the right output. If it >> got >> 3/4 of them correct, then the output correct would be shown as 75%. But >> we >> might really want to know if it got the entire pattern correct (that is, >> did it get all 4 values correct, within a certain tolerance). In that >> case, the output correct should be 0% (since it didn't get the entire >> pattern correct). >> >> Now, conx will also output a "Pattern Correct" integer in the standard >> output display if you use the "pattern" feature, like this: >> >> net.setPatterns( {"dog": [1, 0, 0, 1], "cat": [0, 1, 1, 0]}) >> >> You can also change the tolerance that used in computing if the outputs >> are close enough with: >> >> net.tolerance = .1 >> >> If you then have a correct output (on any output layer) that matches an >> entire pattern, then it will increment the Pattern Correct by 1. >> Currently, this is given by just a total integer count. It would be nice >> if this were a percentage correct, but some other changes will have to >> be >> made to compute this correctly. >> >> This "Pattern Correct" reporting has been commited to CVS. A few >> functions >> had to be changed, including sweep(), step(), backprop(), and >> compute_error(). Basically, they all return a 4th value, the "pattern >> correct count". These will probably also change in the future to return >> a >> "pattern total count" with which to compute percent of the patterns >> correct. Please let me know if you see anything that doesn't seem to be >> working correctly. >> >> -Doug >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pyro-users mailing list >> Pyro-users@emergent.brynmawr.edu >> http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users > From gbisdale at hrl.com Wed Mar 15 19:39:59 2006 From: gbisdale at hrl.com (Jerry Isdale) Date: Wed Mar 15 19:36:41 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Delta3dSim minimally working... Big design issues for 3d ahead In-Reply-To: <34105.12.179.224.68.1141422191.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> References: <4407AF63.1050605@hrl.com> <34105.12.179.224.68.1141422191.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: <4418B3DF.2090208@hrl.com> I have successfully hacked up a linkage between Delta3d and Pyro. It is far from perfect, but I can control an entity in the 3d world from Pyrobot. There is only one world, with only one object (robot) on one port and no devices. It moves fwd/back and turns appropriately. Brains dont make much sense yet as there are no sensors. Proof of concept done, I now need to turn to larger design issues. There are a host of these that I would like to solve in cooperation with the Pyro community. I'll be working up some design plans and would like to hear opinions from interested parties. The design and control of robots that can move with six degrees of freedom - 3 translations and 3 rotations, is different than the existing brains and robots. It would be good to extend (or refactor) the existing 2d model as much as possible. I'm not sure how possible it is to simply extend. I think doing it properly will require refactoring (rewriting) parts of pyro. One key aspect of 3d simulation is the selection of coordinate orientation. For Pyro, it makes sense to choose the ground plane as xy with z = up. Some 3d systems have xy being the screen plane with z in or out. A right handed rotation is also most common and appropriate. The communication messages between sim and client will need to be examined and updated. Perhaps some higher level commands are needed. A method for extending the message handling would be very nice to have. Perhaps rather than changing the base simulator.py, the robot code should handle message dispatch. more to come. i'm going to go celebrate minor success. -- Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 HRL Laboratories, LLC 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 email: isdale@hrl.com web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com From dblank at brynmawr.edu Wed Mar 15 21:07:03 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Wed Mar 15 21:07:09 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Re: Delta3dSim minimally working... Big design issues for 3d ahead In-Reply-To: <4418B3DF.2090208@hrl.com> References: <4407AF63.1050605@hrl.com> <34105.12.179.224.68.1141422191.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> <4418B3DF.2090208@hrl.com> Message-ID: <60682.68.34.179.248.1142474823.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> > I have successfully hacked up a linkage between Delta3d and Pyro. > It is far from perfect, but I can control an entity in the 3d world from > Pyrobot. > There is only one world, with only one object (robot) on one port and no > devices. > It moves fwd/back and turns appropriately. Brains dont make much sense > yet as there are no sensors. > > Proof of concept done, I now need to turn to larger design issues. > There are a host of these that I would like to solve in cooperation with > the Pyro community. > I'll be working up some design plans and would like to hear opinions > from interested parties. > > The design and control of robots that can move with six degrees of > freedom - 3 translations and 3 rotations, is different than the existing > brains and robots. It would be good to extend (or refactor) the > existing 2d model as much as possible. I'm not sure how possible it is > to simply extend. I think doing it properly will require refactoring > (rewriting) parts of pyro. > > One key aspect of 3d simulation is the selection of coordinate > orientation. > For Pyro, it makes sense to choose the ground plane as xy with z = up. > Some 3d systems have xy being the screen plane with z in or out. > A right handed rotation is also most common and appropriate. > > The communication messages between sim and client will need to be > examined and updated. > Perhaps some higher level commands are needed. > A method for extending the message handling would be very nice to have. > Perhaps rather than changing the base simulator.py, the robot code > should handle message dispatch. > > more to come. i'm going to go celebrate minor success. Congrats; that was fast! I haven't worked with this type of interface yet, but I suspect that we will try to remain Player/Stage compatible in the future. They have defined an interface position3d: http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/doc/Player-2.0.0/player/group__interface__position3d.html Currently, we haven't conformed strictly to the position (ie, position2d) interface, but we should. Also, we are using a completely ad hoc process-to-process string-based language in talking to the Pyrobot Simulator. That should be cleaned up, and replaced with a better communication protocol. I had dreams of making that Player/Stage compatible too. But even using Python's "pickle" serialization would be better. Good luck! -Doug > -- > Jerry Isdale, Research Staff Scientist > Advanced Technology Department, M/S RL96 > HRL Laboratories, LLC > 3011 Malibu Canyon Road Malibu, Ca, 90265 USA > Tel: +11 310-317-5883 Fax: +11 310-317-5695 > email: isdale@hrl.com > web: http://www.hrl.com personal: http://vr.isdale.com > > From chrisspen at gmail.com Thu Mar 23 22:26:18 2006 From: chrisspen at gmail.com (Chris Spencer) Date: Thu Mar 23 22:26:21 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Gmane Message-ID: <442366DA.2070502@gmail.com> Would it be ok if I added this mailing list to Gmane (gmane.org)? Gmane is a bidirectional mailing list to newsgroup gateway. It's free to use, as it's mainly tailored to aid in Free software development. It can also archive messages, and encrypt email addresses so there's no problem with spam. If you'd rather not be registered, that's ok. I just find it immensely easier to keep track of threads in a newsgroup format. Sincerely, Chris From chrisspen at gmail.com Fri Mar 24 00:37:18 2006 From: chrisspen at gmail.com (Chris Spencer) Date: Fri Mar 24 00:37:20 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Thanks Message-ID: <4423858E.10502@gmail.com> I'm fairly new to Pyro, but I just wanted to say thanks for making this project available. The documentation and tools are very intuitive, and the rpm repository is extremely convenient. This is by far one of the most useful AI and robotics research toolkits available today. Sincerely, Chris From chrisspen at gmail.com Fri Mar 24 21:51:04 2006 From: chrisspen at gmail.com (Chris Spencer) Date: Fri Mar 24 21:51:07 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Gmane In-Reply-To: <71C51532-DC96-4EE0-A12D-D1169005277E@cs.cofc.edu> References: <442366DA.2070502@gmail.com> <71C51532-DC96-4EE0-A12D-D1169005277E@cs.cofc.edu> Message-ID: <4424B018.5030908@gmail.com> Bill Manaris wrote: > Chris, > > Although a mere (mortal) member (not an owner) of this list, I would > say "no", as this would add too much unrelated traffic to this > specialized list. Your assumption is that everyone here is actively > and directly interested in all-kinds of free software development. I > do not think that's necessarily true. If am correct, your action may > dilute the focus and effectiveness of this mailing list. > > (It was most refreshing that you asked. Some people would have done > it without asking. Thank you!) > > My $0.1 worth, > > Bill I think you may be misunderstanding the function of Gmane and newsgroups. Registering the list won't "lump" our messages in with a bunch of other lists. All it will do will allow people to read the mailing list with a newsgroup reader instead of an email client. Most modern email clients, such as Mozilla Thunderbird or Outlook Express, are also newsgroup (NNTP) readers. Registering would create a newsgroup specific to Pyro, so we wouldn't get any non-Pyro related traffic. This would be accompanied with all the benefits of newsgroups, such as threaded organization of messages and not having your inbox cluttered up with yet another mailinglist ;) I only mentioned free software development because that's what Gmane lists as their inspiration for starting this service for the community, and because it's already used by thousands of mailing lists for well known projects like Gnu, Apache, Gnome, and KDE. But make no mistake, the focus of our group wouldn't be on generic free software. It'll be on Pyro. Regards, Chris From chrisspen at gmail.com Fri Mar 24 22:12:45 2006 From: chrisspen at gmail.com (Chris Spencer) Date: Fri Mar 24 22:12:48 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Gmane In-Reply-To: <28906.68.34.179.248.1143211062.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> References: <442366DA.2070502@gmail.com> <71C51532-DC96-4EE0-A12D-D1169005277E@cs.cofc.edu> <28906.68.34.179.248.1143211062.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: <4424B52D.6090100@gmail.com> dblank@brynmawr.edu wrote: >Chris, > >Thanks, both for asking, and for the nice comments. And thanks to Bill for >bringing up a possible side-effect that I wouldn't have thought of. > >I must admit that I don't know much about gmane. Do you think Bill's >concerns are valid: would putting pyro-users or pyro-developers on gmane >increase the noise-to-signal ratio? People would still have to subscribe >to post, right? Or does gmane just make it easier to read? > >-Doug > > As I mentioned in my reply to Bill, it's basically pretty painless. The newsgroup format just makes the list a little easier to read and access in my opinion. In fact, if I had gone and registered without your approval, you might not have even noticed my posts were coming from Gmane (although Gmane may send a registration notice to the list admin). Gmane's security and registration options are pretty comprehensive, so you can configure Gmane to require people to still subscribe to the mailing list, although the default setting allows anyone to post. Not requiring subscription isn't really as bad as it sounds., since whenever someone first posts to the group, Gmane sends them a confirmation email making sure they're not spambot. You can also tell Gmane to encrypt email addresses visible in posts, so that they can't be harvested by spammers. If you go on nntp://news.gmane.org and browse some groups, you'll find spam is not a problem and that the groups are completely in sync with the mailing lists. Btw, I mentioned this project on the player/stage newsgroup, and they added a link to you on their contrib page. Sincerely, Chris From chrisspen at gmail.com Sat Mar 25 00:06:34 2006 From: chrisspen at gmail.com (Chris Spencer) Date: Sat Mar 25 00:06:37 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Custom Robot Message-ID: <4424CFDA.3080602@gmail.com> I'll also ask this on the Player/Stage list, but concerning Pyro, how would you go about designing a custom robot for use in Gazebo? I've read the section in the docs on "Interfacing Your Own Robot", but I'm still not sure how you'd define the robot's physical form. I'm interested in simulating a hexapod or quadrapod style robot. Thanks, Chris From dblank at brynmawr.edu Sat Mar 25 09:20:25 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Sat Mar 25 09:20:35 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Custom Robot In-Reply-To: <4424CFDA.3080602@gmail.com> References: <4424CFDA.3080602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55702.68.34.179.248.1143296425.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> > I'll also ask this on the Player/Stage list, but concerning Pyro, how > would you go about designing a custom robot for use in Gazebo? I've read > the section in the docs on "Interfacing Your Own Robot", but I'm still > not sure how you'd define the robot's physical form. I'm interested in > simulating a hexapod or quadrapod style robot. Chris, Thanks again for the kind comments about Pyro; much appreciated! The process of building a Gazebo-based legged-based robot is outside the scope of Pyro, so Player/Stage docs and mailing list is the right place to learn how to do that. However, once you do that, you should be able to connect onto the robot and start talking to it from Pyro. Pyro is set up to automatically load each of the devices exposed by a Player-based robot. For example, if Player says that a robot supports a hypothetical device called "leg", then Pyro will load it automatically and it will be available as robot.leg[0] (and the second one is robot.leg[1]). However, since this is a device that we don't know about, there are few Pyro-level methods available. But you can access the Player-level methods through the object robot.leg[0]._dev. It may be that if you want to have control over each leg, you probably want to run faster than 10 updates a second. This is a topic for another email; let us know when you get there (and we would be interested in the entire process, and the model you create, if you would like to share that information with others. We'd be glad to have you add that to our wiki pages.) -Doug > Thanks, > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > Pyro-users mailing list > Pyro-users@emergent.brynmawr.edu > http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users >