From dblank at brynmawr.edu Mon Oct 2 14:03:44 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Mon Oct 2 14:04:02 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Symposium on AI and Robotics Message-ID: <45215480.90304@brynmawr.edu> [Reminder that this Friday is the deadline for this AAAI Symposium. We hope you will submit and participate! And Stanford is so beautiful in the Spring! See URL below for more information. If you have an idea, but not sure it is appropriate, drop me a line. -Doug] 2007 AAAI Spring Symposium - Call for Participation "Robots and Robot Venues: Resources for AI Education" March 26-28, 2007 Stanford University Submission deadline: October 6, 2006 URL: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/roboteducation/ This 2007 AAAI spring symposium will bring together hardware, software, and curriculum designers involved with educational autonomous robotics, robot contest and exhibition organizers, and other interested educators. The symposium will investigate and articulate how educators, especially undergraduate educators, can make the best use of autonomous robots and robot-themed venues as educational experiences. The program will include sessions on - hardware, software, and curricular issues in using autonomous robots - leveraging robot competitions/exhibitions effectively for education - a hands-on robot exhibition on the final symposium day We encourage you to submit technical papers, emerging projects, curricular trials, research-to-classroom bridges, robot exhibition & competition experiences, and other work using robots for undergraduate CS generally and/or AI-related topics specifically. Submissions may be from 2-6 pages in length and should be sent to dodds@cs.hmc.edu by Oct. 3, 2006. Additional details are available at the symposium webpage: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/roboteducation/ We look forward to your submission and participation! From the symposium organizers, Doug Blank, Bryn Mawr College Zachary Dodds, Harvey Mudd College Paul Rybski, Carnegie Mellon University Jerry Weinberg, Southern Illinois University Edwardsville Holly Yanco, University of Massachusetts Lowell From hemanthk at students.iiit.net Tue Oct 3 06:40:19 2006 From: hemanthk at students.iiit.net (HEMANTH) Date: Tue Oct 3 06:44:03 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Pyrobot with amigobot Message-ID: Hi I am a new user of pyrobot. I usually work with amigobots.But I came to know that there is no support for amigo bots in pyrobot.Is there a way to configure pyrobot work with amigobot. thanks -- ************************************************************* K.HEMANTH COMPUTER SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING(DUAL DEGREE) ROLL.NO# 200402017 ROOM.NO# 399(OBH) CONTACT NO# 9849229262 IIIT--HYDERABAD. EMAIL: hemanthkorrapati@gmail.com hemanth_korrapati@yahoo.co.in hemanthk@students.iiit.net ************************************************************** From dblank at brynmawr.edu Tue Oct 3 10:01:52 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Tue Oct 3 10:02:18 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Pyrobot with amigobot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45226D50.2090301@brynmawr.edu> You should be able to use the Amigobot via the Player interface. Searching the mailing list using gmane, I see: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.robotics.pyro.user/239/focus=240 So, it looks like it should work fine. Let us know, -Doug HEMANTH wrote: > > Hi > > I am a new user of pyrobot. > > I usually work with amigobots.But I came to know that there is no > support for amigo bots in pyrobot.Is there a way to configure pyrobot > work with amigobot. > > thanks > From dblank at brynmawr.edu Tue Oct 3 10:25:14 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Tue Oct 3 10:32:40 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] gazebo ode install problem In-Reply-To: <200609121623.k8CGN9VB018905@clip.dia.fi.upm.es> References: <200609121623.k8CGN9VB018905@clip.dia.fi.upm.es> Message-ID: <452272CA.7090603@brynmawr.edu> Nik, I'm going to try to get updated versions of all of the Player/Stage/Gazebo programs rebuilt this Fall, and update the Pyro interface to them. Let us know if you have any hints. -Doug nswoboda@clip.dia.fi.upm.es wrote: > Hello, > > After doing a fresh install of FC5 I am having problems using yum to > install gazebo, I get: > > # yum install gazebo > Loading "installonlyn" plugin > Setting up Install Process > Setting up repositories > core [1/5] > pyrobot [2/5] > updates [3/5] > freshrpms [4/5] > extras [5/5] > Reading repository metadata in from local files > Parsing package install arguments > Resolving Dependencies > --> Populating transaction set with selected packages. Please wait. > ---> Package gazebo.i386 0:0.6.0-fc5 set to be updated > --> Running transaction check > --> Processing Dependency: libproj.so.0 for package: gazebo > --> Processing Dependency: wxPythonGTK2 for package: gazebo > --> Processing Dependency: gsl for package: gazebo > --> Processing Dependency: libode.so for package: gazebo > --> Restarting Dependency Resolution with new changes. > --> Populating transaction set with selected packages. Please wait. > ---> Package wxPython.i386 0:2.6.3.2-1.fc5 set to be updated > ---> Package gsl.i386 0:1.7-1.2.1 set to be updated > ---> Package proj.i386 0:4.4.9-3.fc5 set to be updated > --> Running transaction check > --> Processing Dependency: libwx_gtk2u_gl-2.6.so.0 for package: wxPython > --> Processing Dependency: libwx_gtk2u_gl-2.6.so.0(WXU_2.6) for package: wxPython > --> Processing Dependency: libode.so for package: gazebo > --> Restarting Dependency Resolution with new changes. > --> Populating transaction set with selected packages. Please wait. > ---> Package wxGTK-gl.i386 0:2.6.3-2.6.3.2.2.fc5 set to be updated > --> Running transaction check > --> Processing Dependency: libode.so for package: gazebo > --> Finished Dependency Resolution > Error: Missing Dependency: libode.so is needed by package gazebo > > but it is already installed: > > [nswoboda@nara cups]# rpm -q ode > ode-0.6-2.fc5 > [nswoboda@nara cups]# rpm -q ode-devel > ode-devel-0.6-2.fc5 > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Nik > ____________________________________________________ > > The believer is happy, the doubter wise. > -Greek Proverb > _______________________________________________ > Pyro-users mailing list > Pyro-users@emergent.brynmawr.edu > http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users > > From jalopcar at gmail.com Tue Oct 3 17:17:33 2006 From: jalopcar at gmail.com (Jaime Lopez) Date: Tue Oct 3 17:17:24 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Pyro on Win98 Message-ID: <138315cf0610031417n2af252d4k4187e78e8a72ffad@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I know that Pyro works in WinXP and others version, but I had a problem to make this works in Win98. When I try to run pyro, just appear one black console for a while showin a problem and then it disappear. Nothing happens after that. Any suggestions, Thanks in advance -- Jaime Lopez -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pipermail/pyro-users/attachments/20061003/bfda36d6/attachment.htm From dblank at brynmawr.edu Mon Oct 9 21:29:10 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Mon Oct 9 21:28:57 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Robot and Robot venues Symposium Extension Message-ID: <4218.68.34.179.248.1160443750.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> [In case you missed the deadline last week, don't worry; you can still send those 2 to 6 page papers till this Friday! -Doug] ----------[ *** One-week Deadline Extension *** ]---------- We will continue to invite submissions until October 13, 2006 for 2007's AAAI Spring Symposium: "Robots and Robot Venues: Resources for AI Education" March 26-28, 2007 Stanford University Submission deadline: *** Extended to October 13, 2006 *** URL: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/roboteducation/ This 2007 AAAI spring symposium will bring together hardware, software, and curriculum designers involved with educational autonomous robotics, robot contest and exhibition organizers, and other interested educators. We encourage you to submit technical papers, emerging projects, curricular trials, research-to-classroom bridges, robot exhibition & competition experiences, and other work using robots for undergraduate CS generally and/or AI-related topics specifically. Submissions may be from 2-6 pages in length and should be sent to dodds@cs.hmc.edu by Oct. 13, 2006. Additional details are available at the symposium webpage: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/roboteducation/ We look forward to your submission and participation! >From the symposium organizers, Doug Blank, Bryn Mawr College Zachary Dodds, Harvey Mudd College Paul Rybski, Carnegie Mellon University Jerry Weinberg, Southern Illinois University Edwardsville Holly Yanco, University of Massachusetts Lowell From xyu at siue.edu Tue Oct 10 17:18:44 2006 From: xyu at siue.edu (William Yu) Date: Tue Oct 10 17:18:53 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] HELP! Alternative to AIBO Message-ID: <003001c6ecb1$aadf8660$aa93a392@ac.siue.edu> Greetings, Can anyone suggest an alternative hardware platform to AIBO? I recently (actual, it's been a few month now) received a small internal grant to purchase 4-5 AIBO for my AI class using the PYRO. Unfortunately, although this seems a pretty good idea when I wrote the proposal in January, I can not get any AIBO now that the money is available. I'm wondering if any of you could suggest an alternative to AIBO. I'm looking for something that is relatively powerful and is supported by PYRO in the window's environment. As for my AI class, I just wanted to do a few simple modules such as reactive control and behavior-based control modules plus one other advanced module. Since it'll be just be a relatively small part of the AI class, I'd really like to work with something that's sufficiently sophisticated yet already supported by PYRO simulator so as to minimize the learning curve. That's also pretty much the reason that I selected AIBO, besides it being so cool. Any help will be greatly appreciated! William Yu Computer Science Southern Illinois University Edwardsville -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pipermail/pyro-users/attachments/20061010/2bedf601/attachment.htm From dblank at brynmawr.edu Thu Oct 12 12:20:37 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Thu Oct 12 12:21:12 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] HELP! Alternative to AIBO In-Reply-To: <003001c6ecb1$aadf8660$aa93a392@ac.siue.edu> References: <003001c6ecb1$aadf8660$aa93a392@ac.siue.edu> Message-ID: <452E6B55.3050107@brynmawr.edu> William, This is the $64,000 question! Unfortunately, there is not a $64,000 answer. The answer will really depend on the details of what you want to explore, what you value, and how much money you want to spend. There are pros and cons to all of the following options, and maybe other will have their own opinions. But, here are some options (all of these have some type of vision, and either work with Pyro, or soon will): 1. Roomba, from iRobot. This option is quite cost-effective, and with some clever thinking, you can do a lot. I really think a modern robot has to have a camera, and you can put a laptop with a webcam on the roomba. My roomba is in the mail, so I can't personally can't comment yet on the recent additions to Pyro by James Snow that allow Pyro to control the roomba. (James's code looks excellent, though!) Also, Pyro's vision code currently only works under Linux. This isn't a self-contained robot though, so it will take a little work to get the laptop, software, webcam, and needed parts. 2. ePuck, from GCtronic. I'm just starting to test this out. It is a little pricey and small, but looks like a nice challenger to the Khepera, if you like desktop robotics. Pyro support should be easy (may use the exact same commands as Khepera, which is already supported). 3. Hemisson, from K-Team, and RoadNarrows. A little pricey (once you add all of the needed attachments) and is missing odometry (which the Aibo never had). The vision is done through a separate wireless analog connection. I have had issues with dropped connections, but I know Kim and Robin have been working on this for a couple of years. 4. Surveyor SRV-1, from Surveyor.com. I don't know very much about this one, but it looks like it might be able to quite a bit. I have one of these in the mail, too, so I'll know more in a week or two. 5. AmigoBot from MobileRobot.com. The smallest and cheapest (but still pricey) from the company that produces many robots for research. It can play wav files, has a wireless camera (like the Hemisson), and uses the standard MobileRobot interface. Pyro should work with it through the Player interface. I haven't had one for 8 years, so others might have more to say. 6. Pioneer from MobileRobot.com. The standard in research robotics. Very pricey, but very flexible. Comes in a variety of options (indoor, outdoor, PeopleBot, gripper, etc). There are some other options on the horizon (few months off), and this will surely be a topic at both AAAI Spring Symposium, and at SIGCSE. Any other ideas? -Doug William Yu wrote: > Greetings, > > > > Can anyone suggest an alternative hardware platform to AIBO? > > > > I recently (actual, it?s been a few month now) received a small internal > grant to purchase 4-5 > > AIBO for my AI class using the PYRO. Unfortunately, although this seems > a pretty good idea > > when I wrote the proposal in January, I can not get any AIBO now that > the money is available. > > I'm wondering if any of you could suggest an alternative to AIBO. I'm > looking for something that > > is relatively powerful and is supported by PYRO in the window's > environment. As for my AI class, > > I just wanted to do a few simple modules such as reactive control and > behavior-based control modules > > plus one other advanced module. Since it'll be just be a relatively > small part of the AI class, I'd really > > like to work with something that's sufficiently sophisticated yet > already supported by PYRO simulator > > so as to minimize the learning curve. That's also pretty much the > reason that I selected AIBO, besides it being so cool. > > > > Any help will be greatly appreciated! > > > > William Yu > > Computer Science > > Southern Illinois University Edwardsville > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Pyro-users mailing list > Pyro-users@pyrorobotics.org > http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users From braught at dickinson.edu Thu Oct 12 15:31:26 2006 From: braught at dickinson.edu (Grant Braught) Date: Thu Oct 12 15:31:39 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Re: HELP! Alternative to AIBO In-Reply-To: <200610111600.k9BG02DV025387@emergent.brynmawr.edu> References: <200610111600.k9BG02DV025387@emergent.brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: <24F301BC-B7FE-4F1A-85E1-50CCA742405C@dickinson.edu> Hi William, The same thing happened to me. I ended up getting one AIBO from ebay and another from a user at the AIBO Life website (http://www.aibo- life.org/) where they have a classifieds section. One cost me a little more than the original retail price, the other a little bit less. In addition, Sony will be maintaining repair and support for AIBO through 2011 on the ERS7 models and 2013 on ERS7-M3 models. One word of caution though is that there are lots of AIBO scams on e- bay but if you are reasonably careful it isn't too hard to tell a real auction from a scam. Good luck! Grant > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:18:44 -0500 > From: "William Yu" > Subject: [Pyro-users] HELP! Alternative to AIBO > To: > Message-ID: <003001c6ecb1$aadf8660$aa93a392@ac.siue.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Greetings, > > Can anyone suggest an alternative hardware platform to AIBO? > > From dblank at brynmawr.edu Fri Oct 13 08:05:55 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Fri Oct 13 08:05:42 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] (no subject) Message-ID: <18093.216.12.72.114.1160741155.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> Here's another option designed by Kurt Konolige that I did not know about: 7. Erratic, http://www.videredesign.com/robotics/. Looks to be an alternate platform to the Pioneer. Runs Linux and Player, so Pyro should work straight away. Videre Design specializes in Vision, and I may have to get their stereo vision option ($1400); that looks quite amazing and fast. (I also agree with Grant's warning about Ebay and Aibo... almost happened to me. Just don't send any money through Western Union, nor do any activity outside of Ebay and you should be safe.) If you want to see some reviews of some of these 7 mentioned robots, you should follow http://blog.roboteducation.org/ -Doug From don_tolley at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 20:41:16 2006 From: don_tolley at yahoo.com (Don Tolley) Date: Fri Oct 13 20:41:09 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Making a simulator Message-ID: <20061014004116.44070.qmail@web34208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Can anyone direct me to documentation on creating a new simulator for Pyro? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pipermail/pyro-users/attachments/20061013/ea6119c0/attachment.htm From finog at yahoo.com Sun Oct 22 18:23:29 2006 From: finog at yahoo.com (Finog) Date: Sun Oct 22 18:23:19 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Pyrobot for Aibo - Timeout Message-ID: <20061022222329.10645.qmail@web36113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm helping teach a course on basic programming and robotics at the University of Minnesota and have hit a snag regarding our Aibo robots whilst using the Tekkotsu interface and Pyrobot - namely, that when using the translate, rotate, and move commands the robot stops doing all of these of its own accord when one would expect the motion to continue until the user commanded otherwise. I am led to believe that there is a low-level timeout function which stops these, but, if so, I'm not sure how to disable this function or length its value (default is 3 seconds, I think). Any ideas? ~Richard Barnes~ -University of Minnesota- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dblank at brynmawr.edu Sun Oct 22 18:59:05 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Sun Oct 22 18:58:49 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Pyrobot for Aibo - Timeout In-Reply-To: <20061022222329.10645.qmail@web36113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061022222329.10645.qmail@web36113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15293.68.34.179.248.1161557945.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> > I'm helping teach a course on basic programming and > robotics at the University of Minnesota and have hit a > snag regarding our Aibo robots whilst using the > Tekkotsu interface and Pyrobot - namely, that when > using the translate, rotate, and move commands the > robot stops doing all of these of its own accord when > one would expect the motion to continue until the user > commanded otherwise. I am led to believe that there is > a low-level timeout function which stops these, but, > if so, I'm not sure how to disable this function or > length its value (default is 3 seconds, I think). You are correct: there is a low-level timeout in the Tekkotsu control software. Most of our control programs issue commands many times a second, so it makes sense that if the robot hasn't received a command in 3 seconds, it better stop because it has lost contact with the program. Otherwise, it might walk off a cliff. You have two options. You could change the way your control program works, or you could look into Tekkotsu. I don't know if you can change it in a config file, or in the low-level control code. You should ask over on the Tekkotsu mailing list if no one knows over here. -Doug > Any ideas? > > ~Richard Barnes~ > -University of Minnesota- > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Pyro-users mailing list > Pyro-users@pyrorobotics.org > http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users > From pisaukilatli at googlemail.com Mon Oct 23 06:29:50 2006 From: pisaukilatli at googlemail.com (Andry Tanoto) Date: Mon Oct 23 06:29:39 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Question on Khepera Robots Message-ID: <5a2d9c2a0610230329u40c9ccffx30be1d1ec8c8e92d@mail.gmail.com> Dear all Pyro users, Recently I am looking for a framework which can ease the students in getting in the first touch with robot programming. And not long ago I ran across with Pyro. After going through some information on this framework, I come to a conclusion that it doesn't provide, or perhaps not yet, a way to download the developed program to the robot. In this case, I am interested in downloading the program to Kheperas. I need this feature because it is my aim that the program must run on board the robot. Thus, I wonder whether this feature is within the list of further improvement for Pyro? Or if there is any user who has done similar thing, I'd be very happy to discuss about the idea. Thank you for your kind attention. WBR, Andry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pipermail/pyro-users/attachments/20061023/86fcfad9/attachment.htm From dblank at brynmawr.edu Mon Oct 23 06:41:51 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Mon Oct 23 06:41:36 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Question on Khepera Robots In-Reply-To: <5a2d9c2a0610230329u40c9ccffx30be1d1ec8c8e92d@mail.gmail.com> References: <5a2d9c2a0610230329u40c9ccffx30be1d1ec8c8e92d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44996.68.34.179.248.1161600111.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> > Dear all Pyro users, > > Recently I am looking for a framework which can ease the students in > getting > in the first touch with robot programming. And not long ago I ran across > with Pyro. After going through some information on this framework, I come > to > a conclusion that it doesn't provide, or perhaps not yet, a way to > download > the developed program to the robot. In this case, I am interested in > downloading the program to Kheperas. I need this feature because it is my > aim that the program must run on board the robot. > > Thus, I wonder whether this feature is within the list of further > improvement for Pyro? Or if there is any user who has done similar thing, > I'd be very happy to discuss about the idea. > > Thank you for your kind attention. Andry, No, this hasn't been one of our goals for Pyro. But, if you were interested, we certainly work with you to help you create such a "compiler". Let us know how we could help you if you decide to pursue that. -Doug > WBR, > Andry From kim.wheeler at roadnarrowsrobotics.com Tue Oct 24 14:28:16 2006 From: kim.wheeler at roadnarrowsrobotics.com (Kim Wheeler) Date: Tue Oct 24 14:28:17 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Question on Khepera Robots In-Reply-To: <44996.68.34.179.248.1161600111.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> References: <5a2d9c2a0610230329u40c9ccffx30be1d1ec8c8e92d@mail.gmail.com> <44996.68.34.179.248.1161600111.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: <453E5B40.60902@roadnarrowsrobotics.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pipermail/pyro-users/attachments/20061024/216802e7/attachment.htm From gaidaro2 at otenet.gr Tue Oct 24 06:52:38 2006 From: gaidaro2 at otenet.gr (marinos) Date: Tue Oct 24 14:49:08 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] informations on getting started Message-ID: <000001c6f79e$b102c500$0100000a@user7f8cb8fe9c> hello everybody i am post graduate student in ionio uni (greece), and i would like to make a robotic art installation is it possible with pyro to program other controllers and work with different actuators than the ones you suggest(kephera, pioneer e.t.c.)?and is it going to be a very difficult task for somebody with limited programming experience?and last i downloaded pyro 3.5 to work with python 2.5 on a macintosh and could not install since the syntax "python setup.py install" was considered wrong syntax(actually with python 2.5 i have this problem for any script i try to run like that),eventhough i modified the setup.ckg...any suggestions???() where can i download the latest version of pyro??any help would be deeply appreciated at this point, thank you very much... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pipermail/pyro-users/attachments/20061024/8c16becd/attachment.htm From dblank at brynmawr.edu Wed Oct 25 10:13:39 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Wed Oct 25 10:14:20 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] informations on getting started In-Reply-To: <000001c6f79e$b102c500$0100000a@user7f8cb8fe9c> References: <000001c6f79e$b102c500$0100000a@user7f8cb8fe9c> Message-ID: <453F7113.9060909@brynmawr.edu> marinos wrote: > hello everybody i am post graduate student in ionio uni (greece), and i > would like to make a robotic art installation is it possible with pyro > to program other controllers and work with different actuators than the > ones you suggest(kephera, pioneer e.t.c.)?and is it going to be a very > difficult task for somebody with limited programming experience?and last > i downloaded pyro 3.5 to work with python 2.5 on a macintosh and could > not install since the syntax "python setup.py install" was considered > wrong syntax(actually with python 2.5 i have this problem for any script > i try to run like that),eventhough i modified the setup.ckg...any > suggestions???() > where can i download the latest version of pyro??any help would be > deeply appreciated at this point, thank you very much... Hi, You should begin your Pyro journey at: http://pyrorobotics.org/ You should look over the different parts of the curriculum: http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroCurriculum and also the section on Hardware, especially: http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=Interfacing_20Your_20Own_20Robot The hardest part will be the low-level communication with your different actuators, but that isn't too difficult. The Mac version of Pyro is the least tested, but should work with everything but vision. Use the Linux version to get everything. And feel free to ask questions here! Good luck, -Doug From pisaukilatli at googlemail.com Sat Oct 28 04:43:34 2006 From: pisaukilatli at googlemail.com (Andry) Date: Sat Oct 28 04:43:29 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Question on Khepera Robots In-Reply-To: <453E24E1.80101@brynmawr.edu> References: <5a2d9c2a0610230329u40c9ccffx30be1d1ec8c8e92d@mail.gmail.com> <44996.68.34.179.248.1161600111.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> <453D38D7.1090509@googlemail.com> <453E24E1.80101@brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: <45431836.5040909@googlemail.com> Hallo Doug, I agree with you that the idea will take a lot of effort and it might not be consistent with the basic idea of Pyro. I can see that programming in lower level might not give much advantage to students, which Pyro has successfully prevented. But somehow, I can see the need to run the program on the robot itself. I was also considering to remotely control the robot through Bluetooth or Serial Cable, but I am aware of the delay problem with this approach. I don't know how bad the effect of this delay to the overall system performance. I wonder whether anyone has any reference stating about this issue (I have searched for some time but couldn't find any relevant paper). I did a small test with a Khepera yesterday to see the relationship between message length and the transfer time through serial cable with 38400 bps. Well, for very long messages, such as the one from the linear camera, it will take in average more than 200 ms. It's quite a big delay, in my opinion, especially for application where fast response is compulsory. So I need opinion from everyone here whether the robot remote control is good enough. I am thinking that robot remote control should come after simulation and before programming real robots. And for Khepera, I only see one software that can do it seamlessly, Webots. But it's not free for getting this feature. And Pyro looks to be a good candidate, if we can manage to get the 'translator' working, as you mentioned. I am insisted in working with Khepera, especially Khepera II, because the working group where I am working to has developed several extension modules for it. Moreover, I think this robot will last still for more years, and for education it will last longer. wbr, Andry Douglas S. Blank wrote: > > I think that this sounds like a project that may be beyond what you > can easily do. And it would be very specific, so that it would only > work on one type of robot. > > It would be more of a translator, than compiler, probably. Say, > reading in Python code, and outputing a subset of C code that could > then be compiled and downloaded to the robot. > > And, when you were done, you wouldn't be able to take advantage of any > of Python's libraries. > > I think I'd pick a different way to solve your problem. > > -Doug > > From pisaukilatli at googlemail.com Sat Oct 28 04:50:26 2006 From: pisaukilatli at googlemail.com (Andry) Date: Sat Oct 28 04:50:19 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Question on Khepera Robots In-Reply-To: <453E5B40.60902@roadnarrowsrobotics.com> References: <5a2d9c2a0610230329u40c9ccffx30be1d1ec8c8e92d@mail.gmail.com> <44996.68.34.179.248.1161600111.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> <453E5B40.60902@roadnarrowsrobotics.com> Message-ID: <454319D2.9060709@googlemail.com> Hi Kim, thank you for your kind reply. Yes, I think Webots is quite costly. And considering that we have a remote robotic laboratory (named Teleworkbench) with which remote users can have access to this facility and play around with the robot and download program to the robot, we think that if we can provide a free tool to do the simulation-real experiment process seamlessly, it would be a great advantage for the users. So, I am still thinking of how to get this idea works. And any opinion from the robotic community will be very helpful. wbr, Andry Kim Wheeler wrote: > Hi Andry, > > RoadNarrows is the US distributor of the Khepera robot. > > RoadNarrows is a big advocate of open-source software and we think > that Pyro is great. So, if there is a Pyro effort to integrate the > Khepera programming environment (e.g. gnu c cross-compiler and tools) > so that you can download the code to the robot, we would really like > to support it! > > We are also distributors of Webots, which is a robot > simulator/environment that provides a robot environment for > developing Khepera code in the simulator, debug, test, etc., then > allows you to download the code. > It is a well-supported software application, can run on Windows, > Linux, Mac, but unfortunately it is expensive and not open-source. > (see www.cyberbotics.com or www.roadnarrowsrobotics.com). > There is an old version of the predecessor to Webots, see > http://diwww.epfl.ch/lami/team/michel/khep-sim/ , but I have not tried > it. > > Please let me know if you have any questions, > > Best regards, Kim > kim.wheeler@roadnarrowsrobotics.com > From gaidaro2 at otenet.gr Sun Oct 29 08:54:34 2006 From: gaidaro2 at otenet.gr (marinos) Date: Sun Oct 29 08:43:05 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] installing pyro in mac Message-ID: <000601c6fb61$c41926e0$0100000a@user7f8cb8fe9c> can anyone give step by step guidelines on how to install pyro in a mac because i don t seem to manage.I am using python 2.5... thank you.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pipermail/pyro-users/attachments/20061029/3d353ff2/attachment.htm From dblank at brynmawr.edu Sun Oct 29 09:01:17 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank@brynmawr.edu) Date: Sun Oct 29 09:01:01 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] installing pyro in mac In-Reply-To: <000601c6fb61$c41926e0$0100000a@user7f8cb8fe9c> References: <000601c6fb61$c41926e0$0100000a@user7f8cb8fe9c> Message-ID: <12026.68.34.179.248.1162130477.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> > can anyone give step by step guidelines on how to install pyro in a mac > because i don t seem to manage.I am using python 2.5... > thank you.... Did you try James Weir's http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroMac -Doug From dblank at brynmawr.edu Mon Oct 30 10:38:45 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Mon Oct 30 10:39:30 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Question on Khepera Robots In-Reply-To: <45431836.5040909@googlemail.com> References: <5a2d9c2a0610230329u40c9ccffx30be1d1ec8c8e92d@mail.gmail.com> <44996.68.34.179.248.1161600111.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> <453D38D7.1090509@googlemail.com> <453E24E1.80101@brynmawr.edu> <45431836.5040909@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <45461C85.2060400@brynmawr.edu> Andry wrote: > Hallo Doug, > > I agree with you that the idea will take a lot of effort and it might > not be consistent with the basic idea of Pyro. I can see that > programming in lower level might not give much advantage to students, > which Pyro has successfully prevented. But somehow, I can see the need > to run the program on the robot itself. > > I was also considering to remotely control the robot through Bluetooth > or Serial Cable, but I am aware of the delay problem with this approach. > I don't know how bad the effect of this delay to the overall system > performance. I wonder whether anyone has any reference stating about > this issue (I have searched for some time but couldn't find any relevant > paper). > > I did a small test with a Khepera yesterday to see the relationship > between message length and the transfer time through serial cable with > 38400 bps. Well, for very long messages, such as the one from the linear > camera, it will take in average more than 200 ms. It's quite a big > delay, in my opinion, especially for application where fast response is > compulsory. Andry, We have been using serial over Bluetooth for a few different kinds of robots lately, and run at 38,400 bps too. It doesn't surprise me that one would get a lag of 100 or 200 ms (10 or 5 updates a second). We run the Aibo over Wifi in this manner, and get about the same results, even with full vision processing with our Python/C++ layer! > So I need opinion from everyone here whether the robot remote control is > good enough. I am thinking that robot remote control should come after > simulation and before programming real robots. And for Khepera, I only > see one software that can do it seamlessly, Webots. But it's not free > for getting this feature. And Pyro looks to be a good candidate, if we > can manage to get the 'translator' working, as you mentioned. We have made the decision that we are willing to run at 5 or 10 updates a second in exchange for the full programming and visualization tools provided by Python & Pyro, and the other tools that run on a full operating system (including fast matrix multiplication, C-based self-organizing maps, C++ vision, graphs and plotting, debugging, etc). But not everyone is willing to make that same sacrifice. I think that if you want the speed, then there really is no substitute for writing in the native tools for that particular robot. For example, using PBASIC for the Stamp-based robots. This Khepera page discusses the issue some: http://diwww.epfl.ch/lami/robots/K-family/K-family.html#environment We could work on some low-level byte-code interpreter that could run on a variety of robots. However, I think by the time we got that ready, Moore's law would have PCs the size of the Khepera, and we could just run Pyro on that. However, this is an important issue today, and one that I suspect will be discussed at length at the upcoming 2007 AAAI Spring Symposium "Robots and Robot Venues: Resources for AI Education": http://www.cs.hmc.edu/roboteducation/ Such data and ideas on how to solve this problem would be greatly appreciated. Maybe you can make it? -Doug > I am insisted in working with Khepera, especially Khepera II, because > the working group where I am working to has developed several extension > modules for it. Moreover, I think this robot will last still for more > years, and for education it will last longer. > > wbr, > Andry > > > Douglas S. Blank wrote: >> >> I think that this sounds like a project that may be beyond what you >> can easily do. And it would be very specific, so that it would only >> work on one type of robot. >> >> It would be more of a translator, than compiler, probably. Say, >> reading in Python code, and outputing a subset of C code that could >> then be compiled and downloaded to the robot. >> >> And, when you were done, you wouldn't be able to take advantage of any >> of Python's libraries. >> >> I think I'd pick a different way to solve your problem. >> >> -Doug >> >> > > From casned at rpi.edu Tue Oct 31 17:30:43 2006 From: casned at rpi.edu (Daniel T. Casner) Date: Tue Oct 31 17:30:26 2006 Subject: [Pyro-users] Debugging AIBO Message-ID: <4547CE93.8030106@rpi.edu> I'm having trouble getting Pyrobot working with a set of AIBOs and hoping that someone may have an idea what's going on. When I attempt to connect to the AIBO, it makes a couple of whip noises and the Pyro GUI seems to freeze indefinitely. telnetting to port 59000 on the AIBO for debugging output I get: Loading: /ms/data/motion/walk.prm Pre-2.2 release walk parameter file Playing whiip.wav Playing whiip.wav WorldStateSerializer dropped state at 57770 ... Followed by several more "WorldStateSerializer dropped state at ######" per second until I kill Pyro. I'm using the newly released Tekkotsu 3.0 so I wonder if a change in Tekkotsu may have broken the interface to Pyro. Also is there a way I can get more debugging information out of Pyro to try to diagnose the problem? Thanks, Daniel C.