From dblank at cs.brynmawr.edu Mon Feb 12 09:01:22 2007 From: dblank at cs.brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Mon Feb 12 09:08:48 2007 Subject: [Pyro-users] Pyro version 4.9.3 Message-ID: <12822.68.34.179.248.1171288882.squirrel@cs.brynmawr.edu> Just a note to let you know that there are some recent changes in Pyrobot CVS that you might be interested in: 1. added ability for conx to take a list of dicts in setInputs and setTargets 2. fixed PTZ and Bumpers in Player for Pioneer 3, thanks to Grant Braught at Dickinson. 3. made conx 11 times faster on backprop problems (versus quickprop) (thanks Jim Marshall) 4. fixed escaping robot problem from pyrobot simulator 5. fixed issues with gripper view (thanks Jim Marshall) 6. working on getting udp vision for Aibo; not finished 7. support for iRobot's Roomba (thanks James Snow) 8. support for Parallax's IntelliBrainBot (thanks James Snow) 9. ability to make "movies" from camera views 10. wiki document updates (thanks Belinda Thom and Jim Marshall) You can find out more on getting the latest Pyrobot here: http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroDeveloperCVS This version of Pyrobot is planned to be the last version before we move to Player 2.0. Things that will be changing soon: UDP Vision for Aibo; Vision code running on the Mac; Support for Player/Stage/Gazebo 2.0 (rather than 1.6); support for new robots including Scribbler, iRobot Create, Surveyor SRV-1. The hope is for Pyro version 5.0 to be ready for the SIGCSE Workshop, AAAI Spring Symposium 2007, and Robots: Science and Systems. If you have any "wishlist" items, please feel free to mention them here. -Doug -- Douglas S. Blank Associate Professor, Bryn Mawr College http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank/ Office: 610 526 6501 From dblank at cs.brynmawr.edu Fri Feb 16 08:01:12 2007 From: dblank at cs.brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Fri Feb 16 08:01:12 2007 Subject: [Pyro-users] How to make Aibo pink memory stick Message-ID: <50932.68.34.179.248.1171630872.squirrel@cs.brynmawr.edu> FYI, I saw this on the Tekkotsu mailing list, and thought I'd pass it on: """ I know exactly what the problem is. Apart from being hard to get hold off, the prices that these memory sticks fetch on ebay are sometimes beyond belief. I've seen one go for $500. I don't know if you know that there is an alternative. If you have a look at www.aibo-hack.com , you can find an utility called stickzap. You will need a Sony clie pda (see website) to use it, but it allows you to make a usable PMS (pink aibo chip) from a number of compatible (and cheap) normal sticks. I've used the utility in the past to create such sticks for my phd research. I've succesfully used 64 and 128MB sticks from Sony and Lexar. Make sure you read the full info on the aibo-hack site. """ I know many of us are trying to keep an Aibo program going. I think you can get a Sony Clie PDA on ebay... probably cheaper than the pink sticks :) -Doug -- Douglas S. Blank Associate Professor, Bryn Mawr College http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank/ Office: 610 526 6501 From FarhadOroumchian at uowdubai.ac.ae Wed Feb 21 08:00:21 2007 From: FarhadOroumchian at uowdubai.ac.ae (Farhad Oroumchian) Date: Wed Feb 21 08:06:11 2007 Subject: [Pyro-users] Pyro simulator does not run Message-ID: Hi, I just installed pyro on my laptop and I am trying to run it under windows XP. But it does not work. I have installed Pyro on my desktop and I am running pyrobot from pyrobot/bin It starts a pyrobot window, then when I select pyrobot simulator as a server and Braitenberg.py as my world from "Load world" window then nothing happens. It does not start the world. If I load a robot like PyRobot60000.py after that it hangs. I tried Python and it seems Python itself does not have a problem because I ran several AI test programs like search.py and they worked. Can any one help me, guide me, what I am missing here why Pyro or tcl/tk does not draw the world window? Many thanks in advance. Farhad Oroumchain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pipermail/pyro-users/attachments/20070221/633f3360/attachment.htm From dblank at brynmawr.edu Wed Feb 21 08:13:56 2007 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Wed Feb 21 08:13:54 2007 Subject: [Pyro-users] Pyro simulator does not run In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7092.68.34.179.248.1172063636.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> Farhad, I'm just doing some work to bring Pyro up to version 5.0 and fixed two issues that might have been the cause of your problem. It was the case that if you had a space in your home directory path, then Pyro didn't start correctly. Also, the directory that contained Pyro was not put in the python path, so it might not work, unless installed. If you get the latest version of Pyro from CVS: http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroDeveloperCVS and run the new configWin.py in the root, then there should be a pyrobot/bin/pyrobot.pyw file that you can run without problems. (Once I finish up Pyro5 shortly, I'll make installers, ISO's etc) -Doug On Wed, February 21, 2007 8:00 am, Farhad Oroumchian said: > Hi, > > > > I just installed pyro on my laptop and I am trying to run it under > windows XP. > > > > But it does not work. > > > > I have installed Pyro on my desktop and I am running pyrobot from > pyrobot/bin > > It starts a pyrobot window, then when I select pyrobot simulator as a > server and Braitenberg.py as my world from "Load world" window then > nothing happens. > > It does not start the world. If I load a robot like PyRobot60000.py > after that it hangs. > > > > I tried Python and it seems Python itself does not have a problem > because I ran several AI test programs like search.py and they worked. > > > > Can any one help me, guide me, what I am missing here why Pyro or > tcl/tk does not draw the world window? > > > > Many thanks in advance. > > Farhad Oroumchain > > _______________________________________________ > Pyro-users mailing list > Pyro-users@pyrorobotics.org > http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users > -- Douglas S. Blank Associate Professor, Bryn Mawr College http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank/ Office: 610 526 6501 From tscott at fisher.unco.edu Wed Feb 21 17:54:29 2007 From: tscott at fisher.unco.edu (Terry Scott) Date: Wed Feb 21 17:56:48 2007 Subject: [Pyro-users] pyro robots. Message-ID: Doug, I have just become a pyro-users subscriber. I saw your posting to William Yu about possible robots. I went to look on the web and got info about the ones you mentioned. I have prices but many of the other criteria I have are not listed there. I am buying a robot for use in a CS-0 class (in case you aren't familiar with that notation this is called a breadth-first computer science class - in this case many of the students are not very technical.) The students are learning Python and will be somewhat proficient with it by the time we get to the AI section. I am hoping you might help me figure out what might be the best robot for my criteria. Here are my criteria < $1000 battery powered would be nice. can use Python to program it. able to have a wireless card or an onboard interpreter and RAM/EPROM I assume some sensors so that the robot can naviagate a maze or follow a line Also, I am wondering if I sent this correctly so that it is seen by other members of the pyro-users group. Terry From dblank at brynmawr.edu Wed Feb 21 21:00:03 2007 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Wed Feb 21 21:00:09 2007 Subject: [Pyro-users] pyro robots. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45DCF923.1020802@brynmawr.edu> Terry, I have, perhaps, just the thing for you! I have been working with some colleagues at the Institute for Personal Robots in Education (IPRE) on a robot for just such a course. I didn't mention this one in my original message to William (included below for those who are interested) because it is a very different niche than the Aibo, but nice for CS0, CS1, and maybe even CS2. The basic idea is that we make engaging robots cheap enough so that every student can have their own. We hope in the end that they will cost about $150, but we are closer to $200 right now. But, the pieces are mostly off-the-shelf. Here is what we currently have: - the hardware - Scribbler robot - retails for about $80, but discounts for bulk purchases - 2 light sensors - 2 IR obstacle detector - 2 IR line detectors - stall detector - bluetooth wireless - plays tones (up to 2 at once) - the software - called Myro (based, in part on Pyro) - written in CPython - simplified for CS0, CS1 - adaptable, open source code - modified IDLE - runs on windows, linux and mac - the materials - in progress - written in a wiki, add your own pages - real textbook is also planned The best thing about the materials is that it incorporates more than just robotics. We have art-based lessons using the Scribbler's ability to draw, we have music-based lessons using the tone generator, we have an Instant Messaging library, for exploring communications, etc. Of course, all of these activities do involve robots (for example, you can send a command to a robot over the IM) but they involve activities that make the robot more than just a remote-controlled toy. Our plans are to support as many robots as we can for educational purposes (including all of those mentioned to William: Hemisson, SRV-1, ePuck, Roomba, Lego NXT, etc), and make an easy path from Myro to Pyro. You can find a picture of the IPRE robot kit here: http://wiki.roboteducation.org/wiki/index.php/Myro_Development along with more details of the entire project. You can read a brief description of the IPRE and the project here: http://wiki.roboteducation.org/wiki/index.php/Appendix and find out more about the IPRE here: http://www.roboteducation.org/ Of course, I'd be glad to answer any questions. (There are also related workshops at SIGCSE in a couple of weeks, at AAAI Spring Symposium in a month, and more events this summer). Take a look at see if this would work for your needs. We can also offer assistance for getting started, and help on behind-the-scenes setup (how to teach such a class). -Doug Terry Scott wrote: > Doug, > > I have just become a pyro-users subscriber. I saw your posting to William > Yu about possible robots. I went to look on the web and got info about the > ones you mentioned. I have prices but many of the other criteria I have > are not listed there. > > I am buying a robot for use in a CS-0 class (in case you aren't familiar > with that notation this is called a breadth-first computer science class - > in this case many of the students are not very technical.) > > The students are learning Python and will be somewhat proficient with it > by the time we get to the AI section. > > I am hoping you might help me figure out what might be the best robot for > my criteria. Here are my criteria > < $1000 > battery powered would be nice. > can use Python to program it. > able to have a wireless card or an onboard interpreter and RAM/EPROM > I assume some sensors so that the robot can naviagate a maze or follow a > line > > Also, I am wondering if I sent this correctly so that it is seen by other > members of the pyro-users group. > > Terry > _______________________________________________ > Pyro-users mailing list > Pyro-users@pyrorobotics.org > http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users > William, This is the $64,000 question! Unfortunately, there is not a $64,000 answer. The answer will really depend on the details of what you want to explore, what you value, and how much money you want to spend. There are pros and cons to all of the following options, and maybe other will have their own opinions. But, here are some options (all of these have some type of vision, and either work with Pyro, or soon will): 1. Roomba, from iRobot. This option is quite cost-effective, and with some clever thinking, you can do a lot. I really think a modern robot has to have a camera, and you can put a laptop with a webcam on the roomba. My roomba is in the mail, so I can't personally can't comment yet on the recent additions to Pyro by James Snow that allow Pyro to control the roomba. (James's code looks excellent, though!) Also, Pyro's vision code currently only works under Linux. This isn't a self-contained robot though, so it will take a little work to get the laptop, software, webcam, and needed parts. 2. ePuck, from GCtronic. I'm just starting to test this out. It is a little pricey and small, but looks like a nice challenger to the Khepera, if you like desktop robotics. Pyro support should be easy (may use the exact same commands as Khepera, which is already supported). 3. Hemisson, from K-Team, and RoadNarrows. A little pricey (once you add all of the needed attachments) and is missing odometry (which the Aibo never had). The vision is done through a separate wireless analog connection. I have had issues with dropped connections, but I know Kim and Robin have been working on this for a couple of years. 4. Surveyor SRV-1, from Surveyor.com. I don't know very much about this one, but it looks like it might be able to quite a bit. I have one of these in the mail, too, so I'll know more in a week or two. 5. AmigoBot from MobileRobot.com. The smallest and cheapest (but still pricey) from the company that produces many robots for research. It can play wav files, has a wireless camera (like the Hemisson), and uses the standard MobileRobot interface. Pyro should work with it through the Player interface. I haven't had one for 8 years, so others might have more to say. 6. Pioneer from MobileRobot.com. The standard in research robotics. Very pricey, but very flexible. Comes in a variety of options (indoor, outdoor, PeopleBot, gripper, etc). There are some other options on the horizon (few months off), and this will surely be a topic at both AAAI Spring Symposium, and at SIGCSE. Any other ideas? -Doug William Yu wrote: > Greetings, > > > > Can anyone suggest an alternative hardware platform to AIBO? > > > I recently (actual, it?s been a few month now) received a small internal grant to purchase 4-5 > > AIBO for my AI class using the PYRO. Unfortunately, although this seems a pretty good idea > > when I wrote the proposal in January, I can not get any AIBO now that the money is available. > I'm wondering if any of you could suggest an alternative to AIBO. I'm looking for something that > > is relatively powerful and is supported by PYRO in the window's environment. As for my AI class, > > I just wanted to do a few simple modules such as reactive control and behavior-based control modules > > plus one other advanced module. Since it'll be just be a relatively small part of the AI class, I'd really > > like to work with something that's sufficiently sophisticated yet already supported by PYRO simulator > > so as to minimize the learning curve. That's also pretty much the reason that I selected AIBO, besides it being so cool. > > > > Any help will be greatly appreciated! > > > > William Yu > > Computer Science > > Southern Illinois University Edwardsville From tscott at fisher.unco.edu Thu Feb 22 13:31:53 2007 From: tscott at fisher.unco.edu (Terry Scott) Date: Thu Feb 22 13:34:13 2007 Subject: [Pyro-users] pyro robots. In-Reply-To: <45DCF923.1020802@brynmawr.edu> References: <45DCF923.1020802@brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: Doug, Wow, I am not used to having things turn out so well. My department chair told me on Monday that I had the $1000. I talked to a friend that is somewhat involved with PYRO and she suggested the pyro-users discussion group. I signed up for the discussion group. I looked through a few of the archives and saw your message to William Yu and sent you the posting. You wrote immediately so from starting to look and what appears to be the answer - 4 days. It sounds like I was thinking about the same things as you and IPRE were thinking. I have been wanting to spice up the AI section in the CS-0 course. I had a quick look at some of the materials on the wiki and other webpages. It looks perfect. I was not planning to go to SIGCSE. If I decide to go is the Myro workshop full? I consider myself somewhat technically able. Can I figure this out without attending anything at least initially using the online materials? I would like to purchase one at the approx. $200. Let me know how to proceed. Thanks very much for all the good info. Terry Scott On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, Douglas S. Blank wrote: > Terry, > > I have, perhaps, just the thing for you! I have been working with some > colleagues at the Institute for Personal Robots in Education (IPRE) on a > robot for just such a course. I didn't mention this one in my original > message to William (included below for those who are interested) because > it is a very different niche than the Aibo, but nice for CS0, CS1, and > maybe even CS2. > > The basic idea is that we make engaging robots cheap enough so that > every student can have their own. We hope in the end that they will cost > about $150, but we are closer to $200 right now. But, the pieces are > mostly off-the-shelf. Here is what we currently have: > > - the hardware > - Scribbler robot > - retails for about $80, but discounts for bulk purchases > - 2 light sensors > - 2 IR obstacle detector > - 2 IR line detectors > - stall detector > - bluetooth wireless > - plays tones (up to 2 at once) > > - the software > - called Myro (based, in part on Pyro) > - written in CPython > - simplified for CS0, CS1 > - adaptable, open source code > - modified IDLE > - runs on windows, linux and mac > > - the materials > - in progress > - written in a wiki, add your own pages > - real textbook is also planned > > The best thing about the materials is that it incorporates more than > just robotics. We have art-based lessons using the Scribbler's ability > to draw, we have music-based lessons using the tone generator, we have > an Instant Messaging library, for exploring communications, etc. Of > course, all of these activities do involve robots (for example, you can > send a command to a robot over the IM) but they involve activities that > make the robot more than just a remote-controlled toy. > > Our plans are to support as many robots as we can for educational > purposes (including all of those mentioned to William: Hemisson, SRV-1, > ePuck, Roomba, Lego NXT, etc), and make an easy path from Myro to Pyro. > > You can find a picture of the IPRE robot kit here: > > http://wiki.roboteducation.org/wiki/index.php/Myro_Development > > along with more details of the entire project. You can read a brief > description of the IPRE and the project here: > > http://wiki.roboteducation.org/wiki/index.php/Appendix > > and find out more about the IPRE here: > > http://www.roboteducation.org/ > > Of course, I'd be glad to answer any questions. (There are also related > workshops at SIGCSE in a couple of weeks, at AAAI Spring Symposium in a > month, and more events this summer). > > Take a look at see if this would work for your needs. We can also offer > assistance for getting started, and help on behind-the-scenes setup (how > to teach such a class). > > -Doug > > Terry Scott wrote: > > Doug, > > > > I have just become a pyro-users subscriber. I saw your posting to William > > Yu about possible robots. I went to look on the web and got info about the > > ones you mentioned. I have prices but many of the other criteria I have > > are not listed there. > > > > I am buying a robot for use in a CS-0 class (in case you aren't familiar > > with that notation this is called a breadth-first computer science class - > > in this case many of the students are not very technical.) > > > > The students are learning Python and will be somewhat proficient with it > > by the time we get to the AI section. > > > > I am hoping you might help me figure out what might be the best robot for > > my criteria. Here are my criteria > > < $1000 > > battery powered would be nice. > > can use Python to program it. > > able to have a wireless card or an onboard interpreter and RAM/EPROM > > I assume some sensors so that the robot can naviagate a maze or follow a > > line > > > > Also, I am wondering if I sent this correctly so that it is seen by other > > members of the pyro-users group. > > > > Terry > > _______________________________________________ > > Pyro-users mailing list > > Pyro-users@pyrorobotics.org > > http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/mailman/listinfo/pyro-users > > > > William, > > This is the $64,000 question! > > Unfortunately, there is not a $64,000 answer. The answer will really > depend on the details of what you want to explore, what you value, and > how much money you want to spend. > > There are pros and cons to all of the following options, and maybe other > will have their own opinions. But, here are some options (all of these > have some type of vision, and either work with Pyro, or soon will): > > 1. Roomba, from iRobot. This option is quite cost-effective, and with > some clever thinking, you can do a lot. I really think a modern robot > has to have a camera, and you can put a laptop with a webcam on the > roomba. My roomba is in the mail, so I can't personally can't comment > yet on the recent additions to Pyro by James Snow that allow Pyro to > control the roomba. (James's code looks excellent, though!) Also, Pyro's > vision code currently only works under Linux. This isn't a > self-contained robot though, so it will take a little work to get the > laptop, software, webcam, and needed parts. > > 2. ePuck, from GCtronic. I'm just starting to test this out. It is a > little pricey and small, but looks like a nice challenger to the > Khepera, if you like desktop robotics. Pyro support should be easy (may > use the exact same commands as Khepera, which is already supported). > > 3. Hemisson, from K-Team, and RoadNarrows. A little pricey (once you add > all of the needed attachments) and is missing odometry (which the Aibo > never had). The vision is done through a separate wireless analog > connection. I have had issues with dropped connections, but I know Kim > and Robin have been working on this for a couple of years. > > 4. Surveyor SRV-1, from Surveyor.com. I don't know very much about this > one, but it looks like it might be able to quite a bit. I have one of > these in the mail, too, so I'll know more in a week or two. > > 5. AmigoBot from MobileRobot.com. The smallest and cheapest (but still > pricey) from the company that produces many robots for research. It can > play wav files, has a wireless camera (like the Hemisson), and uses the > standard MobileRobot interface. Pyro should work with it through the > Player interface. I haven't had one for 8 years, so others might have > more to say. > > 6. Pioneer from MobileRobot.com. The standard in research robotics. Very > pricey, but very flexible. Comes in a variety of options (indoor, > outdoor, PeopleBot, gripper, etc). > > There are some other options on the horizon (few months off), and this > will surely be a topic at both AAAI Spring Symposium, and at SIGCSE. > > Any other ideas? > > -Doug > > William Yu wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > > > > > Can anyone suggest an alternative hardware platform to AIBO? > > > > > > I recently (actual, it?s been a few month now) received a small > internal grant to purchase 4-5 > > > > AIBO for my AI class using the PYRO. Unfortunately, although this > seems a pretty good idea > > > > when I wrote the proposal in January, I can not get any AIBO now that > the money is available. > > I'm wondering if any of you could suggest an alternative to AIBO. I'm > looking for something that > > > > is relatively powerful and is supported by PYRO in the window's > environment. As for my AI class, > > > > I just wanted to do a few simple modules such as reactive control and > behavior-based control modules > > > > plus one other advanced module. Since it'll be just be a relatively > small part of the AI class, I'd really > > > > like to work with something that's sufficiently sophisticated yet > already supported by PYRO simulator > > > > so as to minimize the learning curve. That's also pretty much the > reason that I selected AIBO, besides it being so cool. > > > > > > > > Any help will be greatly appreciated! > > > > > > > > William Yu > > > > Computer Science > > > > Southern Illinois University Edwardsville > From tscott at fisher.unco.edu Fri Feb 23 12:53:51 2007 From: tscott at fisher.unco.edu (Terry Scott) Date: Fri Feb 23 12:56:12 2007 Subject: [Pyro-users] pyro robots. In-Reply-To: <45DCF923.1020802@brynmawr.edu> References: <45DCF923.1020802@brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: Doug, I had a look on the Internet and found the scribbler robot for $100, 2 bluetooth dongles for $13 each. I assume that the myro software is available for download (you said opensource). Is there anything else that I need? I can buy pens and other misc. locally. Any info would be a help. Terry Scott From dblank at brynmawr.edu Fri Feb 23 13:26:38 2007 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Fri Feb 23 13:26:38 2007 Subject: [Pyro-users] pyro robots. In-Reply-To: References: <45DCF923.1020802@brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: <45DF31DE.6030104@brynmawr.edu> Terry Scott wrote: > Doug, > > I had a look on the Internet and found the scribbler robot for $100, 2 > bluetooth dongles for $13 each. I assume that the myro software is > available for download (you said opensource). Is there anything else that > I need? I can buy pens and other misc. locally. > > Any info would be a help. > > Terry Scott Terry, I'll follow this discussion up over on the Myro Users mailing list (which I invite anyone here to join) as it is more connected to that group than the Pyro users: http://myro.roboteducation.org/mailman/listinfo/myro-users -Doug